ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOX) – Animal welfare groups are barking back at efforts to repeal Prop B — the state’s voter-approved crack-down on puppy mills.

The Missouri Alliance for Animal Legislation is taking some supporters to Jefferson City today to meet legislators in person.  Executive Director Bob Baker is asking anyone else to call or e-mail.

Baker says some proposals would completely scrap the new rules for dog breeders while others would gut the most important provisions.  “You know this passed in the majority of legislative districts in the state.  So if every legislator would listen to their constituents, Proposition B will be left alone and it will stand and dogs will have protection.”

Opponents have expressed concerns the law will impact other agricultural industries in the state.  Supporters have repeatedly denied those claims.

The measure approved by voters in November would require breeding kennels to limit their animals and provide minimum standards for exercise and veterinary care.

Copyright KMOX Radio

Comments (535)
  1. Raven Kasprzak says:

    I hope for it to stay the way we voted. No animal should be treated that way, so I say to those that are concerned about other live stock rules well you should never treat anything bad, what would Jesus do??????

    1. Joan A says:

      Treated what way? We already have laws to prevent animal abuse?? Raven I am an Animal lover too.. I feel your pain.. But I must inform you.. You have been lied to .

      1. nopuppy mills says:

        Lied to in what way? Food, water and shelter are a problem for you?

      2. EDWARD C says:

        Lied to is a mild way of putting it. Thank God that we have intelligent Senators and Reps!! The laws for feed, water, and shelter were already there. There are some bad kennels and when they are discovered they are well exploited by Humane Society and they act like all the kennels are like that. No one wants animal cruelty. just common sense. This prop b does not have common sense. The writers of the bill couldn’t define domestic to the Senators at the hearing, but they wrote it in the bill!!!! They couldn’t define solid flooring, and put that in there too. Did they mean dirt? cement? gravel? Who can comply with this garbage law??? The breeders will have to change flooring every time the will of the HSUS decides differently. Show me the common sense. This bill applies to only breeding facilities, the writer’s are exempt. Does that mean breeders can not be cruel but it is the Humane’s Society’s right to do whatever to these animals??? The Missouri court system cannot afford what HSUS has in store for anyone who actually tries to comply.

    2. Ang says:

      What do you mean “treated that way”? Have you been to a USDA licensed kennel? Do you know the care these dogs are given? Do not believe all the stories you read and see. If you want to have a successful business you have to take care of your employees, right? It is no different in this industry. If you want happy, healthy puppies you must have happy, healthy dogs. If you want more government regulations on something try protecting our children. I am a school teacher and I know a lot of my kids are not taken care of nearly as well as most of the local kennels around here.

    3. Edward says:

      If NO animal should be treated that way, why does the animal shelters want to be exempt?? If this law is for anti cruelty, why do they insist on being exempt? This bill is not about animal cruelty, it is to put the end to animal breeding. Read the bill Raven. Jesus would want us to be happy with the puppies that we raise. And we are.We love them, HSUS wants them to be non existent. Jesus gave us animals and so much more. We thank Him for our blessings.

  2. Kate says:

    Jesus? Jesus would be posting bail money for Noah if HSUS existed back then!
    I wouldn’t quote religion with this movement. More lies were told about innocent people than can be counted.

  3. Chris L. says:

    What is the point of voting if lawmakers do not listen?

    Whom to write to

    1. Joan A says:

      Chris law makers do listen. Out of all the counties in Missouri only 11 voted yes on Prop B the remaining counties have voters who unanimously voted no on prop B and the representatives of those counties are trying to allow their constituents wishes to be met.. I feel a compromise is on order. allow prop B to stand only on the 11 counties which voted yes.

      1. Shelley says:

        The county vote has little meaning when it comes to state legislation. What matters is how many people voted for the bill.

        Proposition B also passed in the majority of Missouri senate and house of representatives districts, too, which is another statistic that matters with state legislation.

      2. Animal Advocate says:

        Joan – Do you want this ‘compromise’ every time the majority wins on an issue? If so, why don’t we separate out Missouri into rural vs. city because that’s how this vote went down. And I’d be willing to bet that those that voted against Prop B are the counties WITH the Puppy Mills.

      3. Joan A says:

        Animal Advocate
        America was not based on such divisions. But if knowledge is lost between city and country as greatly as it is today. This may be an option. Even with our freedom of information we can not have country dictating needs of a city and visa versa. Especially when no common knowledge of the purposed issue is understood. We have city people so far removed from he natural order of things. Some who believe meat is birthed pre packed in grocery store packaging. Not understanding what it takes to get the meat on the table.

        Then having those same people dictate farm policy is frightening and detrimental to our national food security.
        Dogs are not our food source. But they are closer to farming then they are to city matters. Where city people cannot comprehend keeping more then the few dogs that can comfortable fit in their homes.
        Where some city people try and keep vast amount of dogs in a home never meant to house so many animals. Causing horrifying hoarding situations that further angers and confuses the public. With no ease of cleaning and caring for the animals as our modern day kennels.

        Prop B was formed to cause a clear division between city and country. Prop B was only successful by this division. Prop B used emotionally charged language. With emotionally charged marketing . It used fear, disgust and anger to encourage the city voter to vote yes.
        While at the same time forcing the country folk that voted no. To appear abusive, backwards, and plain stupid. The government officials in Missouri that allowed prop B to go through as written. Should be deeply ashamed of themselves. For causing such clear divisions. They need to be more careful in the future. This is an agricultural state. We can not allow the 2 major cities to change that.

  4. ptbamdb says:

    Actually, Jesus blesses my licensed dog business, thank you. I thank Him daily and tithe on the puppy sales.
    Raven, just what is it that I do to my dogs that you are concerned about? I ask sincerely. I don’t understand what you are thinking that I do wrong.

    1. nopuppy mills says:

      What is your name so we can look you up and see how many dogs you have and your violations? I’m sick and tired of you millers hiding behind screen names.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        And just who is asking? nopuppy mills sounds like the crazy lady named Kim.

  5. smilingirlinmo says:

    ptbamdb, I don’t see anyone accusing you of anything. None of us have any 1st hand knowledge of you & your business. But a lot of us have seen the dogs that come out of the deplorable conditions that have been dubbed ‘puppy mills’, where it appears that owners are more concerned with quantity than quality. These dogs have numerous medical problems. Most have never felt the warm caress of a humans hand among (numerous) other things. That is what we are concerned about!

    1. ptbamdb says:

      A blanket statement was made “no animal should be treated that way”, in reference to keeping Prop B. Since Prop B affects me and my fellow licensed dog breeders only, I took it personally. Prop B does not affect unlicensed illegal breeders.
      You have not seen dogs coming from my kennel or the other good licensed kennels that are being targeted by HSUS and Prop B. You are seeing problems from the substandard kennels, mostly unlicensed ones who are NOT affected by Prop B. So what has Prop B solved?

      1. smilingirlinmo says:

        Prop B does cover unlicensed illegal breeders.

      2. tracy says:


        I would love to come see your kennel and your dogs.

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Tracy, I have periodic visits from my USDA inspector, MODA inspector, AKC inspector, my veterinarian, my relatives, my minister, my fellow dog breeders, my friends, and the occasional puppy buyer. I keep busy; my dance card is full.

    2. Joan A says:

      Prop B has nothing written within it. To force people to pet their dogs. Nor does it stop breeders from breeding dogs with hereditary issues or any other medical issue that can be passed on.. along with Temperament. Your Prop B is unconstitutional. Your Prop B has no scientific basis that it is actually a better method for keeping dogs in a kennel situation. If it were. Then why aren’t shelters and rescues forced to abide by it?

      1. Shelley says:

        I have a hard time reading your comment.

        If Proposition B is Unconstitutional, than breeders have recourse: they can take Proposition B to court. That is the appropriate course, rather than state representatives overriding the will of the people fora special interest group.

        As for the rest of your comment, I’m sorry, I just can’t understand what you’re trying to say.

      2. nopuppy mills says:

        You make no sense. Shelters did not go in business to make money off of dogs. There is a difference between RESCUE and SELLING.

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Excuse me, are you saying that rescues do not sell their dogs? I haven’t seen one give a dog away yet. The ‘rescue’ store in St. Louis sure asks a lot for their ‘doggie in the windows’!

      4. Ang says:

        Joan, that is a very good question “Why arent shelters and rescues forced to abide by it?” I dont know why that are not. Could be because HSUS is only trying to control the industry and are not truly concerned about the animals. Do a little research on the HSUS see how much money they get from those sad, little commercials and then see how much of that money actually goes to helping animals. It is like half of one percent. Look at what they have done in other states and tell me they arent out to get rid of all animals. Wayne Parcell (spelling might be off) president of HSUS has made some very disturbing comments about an infant and an ant should be thought of as equal, if a dog or a child ran out in front of his car he would choose hittitng the child because he should know better. This is the mentallity of the president of HSUS that has all of this money to campaign and tell lies about the dog industry.

    3. Nancy says:

      There are also ‘LAWS’ already on the books that make it possible for such bad facilities to be closed down. It happens on a regular basis. The new laws being
      proposed are nothing but an attempt from left wing groups that want to see the
      total elimination of Animal Ownership …. Period. Anybody with any common sense at all that can put 2 and 2 together can see that substandard breeders are being put out of business on a daily basis with the laws that are already in place. The newly proposed ones are to try to put Breeders PERIOD out of business.

  6. Sharon says:

    prop B actually weakened the welfare statutes already in place for lisenced breeders, and did nothing to increase enforcement or catch the people not following the regulations. Missouri’s vet board had a item-by item comparison on their site.

    1. Jen says:

      Sharon is spewing Prop B BS!

      1. Mary says:

        HSUS lies too so what is the difference. Tell me when Wayne has ever told the truth!!!!

  7. tracy walker says:

    Let the vote stand! We voted and that should be the END!

    1. ptbamdb says:

      You voted to regulate me out of business as well. The illegal breeders are thanking you for helping them to prosper as you killed off the legal licensed industry. Kinda reminds me of what HSUS did to the horses forcing slaughter houses to close. Now there are a lot of starving horses. There will be thousands of euthanized dogs in Missouri. Are you proud of what you have done to the dogs and Missouri?

      1. Shelley says:

        No one has voted you out of business.

        This legislation is new business regulations. Businesses have been regulated in Missouri for quite a long time.

        You can stay in business as long as you meet the new regulations.

        So what do you have problems with? Clean water? Enough space for the dog to stretch out? Access to an outdoor area so the dog can get some exercise? Ensuring the vet sees the dog at least once a year?

    2. Joan A says:

      I agree. Only 11 counties voted yes on Prop B. I say let St Louis and Kansas City have prop B. While the rest of the counties in Missouri who voted no.. Have no changes as they have decided. Let the voters wishes stand. No prop B for all of Missouri with the exception of the 11 foolish counties

      1. Shelley says:

        How the vote is split by county means nothing. What matters is the number of people who voted for the bill, and a majority voted for Proposition B.

        You say “Let the voters wishes stand”, at the same time as you’re saying that we shouldn’t let the voters wishes stand on Proposition B.

      2. Joan A says:

        Shelley you are saying the ag areas of Missouir mean nothing?

  8. Jill says:

    You voted to end my business and take away my dogs that I raised and that I love. You have no idea about what you have done to families not to mention what is now happening to dogs. Dogs are now being euthanized because of prop b. The blood in on your hands.

    1. Chris L. says:


      Prop B will only come into effect in November 2011. There is no need to euthanize dogs now IF the breeders start looking for good homes for them NOW.

      1. Jill says:

        I had an agreement with two rescues. They backed out. They are afraid of the fall out. Alot of their donations also dried up. Our vet said that he has lost track of the number that he has already euthanized. Other groups are also backing out.

      2. Venice says:

        Chris, are you kidding me? This isnt just a handful of dogs, There will be many dogs euthenized because of this prob B & guess what the unlic. puppy mills will still be.

      3. Nancy says:

        Oh 2 be you and actually believe what you say Chris L. Breeders aren’t Rescue groups who have a bottomless pocketbook to spend on finding homes for adult dogs that they are being forced to part with. Check with the Rescues, all around the world and find ones that are WILLING and WILL take on these dogs and let us know. MANY are waiting for that information TODAY!

    2. Joan A says:

      Better to Euthanize the dogs .. Before allowing a rescue hoarder to have them.. Or have the dogs paraded around for rescue profit. And the dogs who don’t sell are killed or sold to the research facilities. The few that get adopted. Pee on the new owners floors. Because the rescues did not do their job retraining them as they claimed. So now the new owners have no option but to turn them into the shelter . Because they do not have the skills to train an older dog.. The shelter then either euthanizes the dogs directly or sells them to the research facilities. Few find new homes. very few find that forever home.

      Very few dogs that go the rescue route. Have a good experience. There is a lot of stress. Traveling. People expecting a lot from animals. Animals who lived a sheltered simple life. Taking an animal form a safe haven. A haven where children are not stepping on them. Loud noises. TVs . Stairs. Cars do not drive. Larger animals do not attack them. Cats do not scratch at them. People do not demand obedience. They can go the bathroom without holding it. Their areas are cleaned. They have as much food and water as they want.
      Trying to force a new life style on kennel dogs. Separating them from their loving pack.

      Then expecting the world of them. As if they were raised in the new environment as a pup. while boosting it was abused. People treating the animal like it is some pathetic invalided. Because they believe the animal is abused. Causing a real depression. You tell an animal its a poor pathetic thing.. They believe you. Any dog can be made to drop its ears. and put on a sad face. by saying aaw poor baby while pouting.. Do this day in and day out.. The new owner believes the animal was abused can cause serious mental issues.

      Buying kennel dogs from auction, or tricking breeders into believing you are going to magically retrain the dog in a few weeks. Then find the magical perfect home so it can be petted like never before and feel grass. Is idiotic. Most kennels purposely take pictures of their dogs in the grass. Because the false allegations used rescue sellers have to use those marketing labels, to peddle their wares. Which are out right slanderous . It takes real ignorant people to believe their BS. Surprisingly a lot of people do .I assume they want to believe in a pathetic story. Maybe to justify something in their lives.

      1. Amy says:

        What’s with the choppy sentences?? That was hard to read. But from what I gather, you think dogs from rescue organizations don’t find forever homes? Are you nuts? I have a dog from a no-kill shelter. Most of my friends and family got their dogs from shelters as well.

      2. John says:

        And all of this is done illegally. They trasport dogs across state lines with out rabies shots or health certificates. By legal deffinition this would make the rescuers BROKERS!

    3. Shelley says:

      Considering that national rescues have accepted dogs from breeders who have already started downsizing in this state, I find your assertion of “dogs being euthanized now” to be highly unlikely.

      1. Venice says:


      2. Nancy says:

        Names and Phone numbers please that are at the disposable of these breeders and are willing to take on everything that needs placing now.

    4. tracy says:

      boo f-ing hoo. I lost my job that supported me and my two kids. I lost my house and savings. Nobody cared one bit! so what do you do? Pick up the pieces and move on. Although I didn’t rely on animals to pay my bills, that was your choice! So the blood is in your hands. The dogs don’t have to be euthanized. Why don’t you put them up for adoption or contact rescue groups that will take them and work on another humane career.

      1. EDWARD C says:

        At least they didnt take your kids. If mine are taken. it will feel like that to me. We should line them up on you tube and let the voters decide which will die. You look in their eyes!! And vote for the lucky one of the day.

      2. Nancy says:

        Logic deems that YOU lost your job and think it’s okay to regulate others out of theirs? I’m sure everybody in Missouri would LOVE for you to give them the names of all of these Humane Organizations that are READY and WILLING to step in and take on all of the dogs in Missouri that are being displaced by this new law. WHERE are they? I hear a LOT about them but have yet to see any saying “Here We Are – Tell Us where we need to go and how many cargo vans to bring filled with Cages”. Please don’t tell me PETA as they have already been caught red handed so-called RESCUING dogs by picking them up, euthanizing them a few miles down the road and illegally disposing of the bodies in dumpsters in alleys. PETA and HSUS gets LOTS of Donations for supposedly SAVING the dogs but where are they NOW? Better question is “What are they going to do with the THOUSANDS of dogs that need their help NOW and are they going to step up to the plate and take them on?

  9. ptbamdb says:

    Breeders are taking responsibility for the dogs they have bred, raised, cared for and loved for years. Homes are scarce as the shelters are the marketing experts for adult dogs.
    Responsible breeders will not be filling up the shelters with their excess breeding stock. How could they dump off their best friends at a cold crowded shelter who helped put them out of business and ruin their lives? Much kinder to have the vet gently euthanize them. Tears will flow and hearts will break, but the dogs’ blood will be on HSUS’ and yes-voters’ hands.

    1. Chris L. says:

      Tears are already flowing because 4 million to 5 million dogs are euthanized each year due to pet overpopulation.

      Responsible breeders will not dump their dogs to the shelters. They will find these dogs good home themselves!

      1. Joan A says:

        Well Chris.. I know a way to stop that.. We need to force Data to be collected. From exactly where all these unwanted dogs come from.. Because once the public dicovers the truth.. I am sure the real supply will be stopped.. google rescue imports

      2. Venice says:

        Chris, sorry to burst your bubble, but most of these dogs WILL end up being euthenized.

      3. Nancy says:

        Really Chris L? Where do you get your statistics? Dogs are being IMPORTED
        by Rescue groups to adopt out. The dogs you refer to are unadoptable and
        unwanted as they are either Sick, have bad temperments, unadoptable due to
        looks and/or size. This is a VERY MISLEADING STATEMENT but then if you
        truly took the time to KNOW FOR A FACT about the stuff you post then you arleady realize it is a MISLEADING statement. PETA’s excessive high Euthanization rate based on what they take in sure helps these numbers greatly. Don’t guess we can accuse HSUS though as they don’t own or
        run one single Shelter but choose to spend the money donated to them on
        their own wages and Legislation cost and oh yeah – let’s not forget their
        ads to get MORE donations where is exactly where the most of their incoming donations goes.

  10. Kent says:

    Take a look at the HSUS kill records. They have no remorse for killing dogs.
    They are a dismal group that has become a high dollar mafia.
    Our vet has already lost kennel clients who have sold their breeding stock to people from outside of Missouri. There goes our revenue folks. Thank you so much for your educated way of thinking. Be prepared to pay the big bucks for those out of state puppies.

    1. Shelley says:

      And you have verifiable evidence of the “HSUS killing records”? On the one hand you say that HSUS doesn’t run dog shelters; on the other, you say that HSUS kills dogs. Which is it?

      Question, and you don’t have to answer, but are you working, directly or indirectly, for HumaneWatch? I believe it is important for people to be aware that people are being paid by HumaneWatch to comment in these threads.

      1. Joan A says:

        This is a common mistake. It is popular belief the HSUS is in charge of the thousands of city humane societies across the country. When in fact they are not. But they still do raids . When media coverage is available. They end up giving those dogs to hungry shelters where many of them are euthnized.

        What gets me is how your side believes it is ok to kill health animals on a daily abuses. Your numbers range from 4 to 11 million killed pets in a years time. There are no studies on what or why these animals are killed. Nor where they actually come from.
        Without this data only assumptions can be made. Which they are. Assumptions which are causing a huge collateral damage. Which can effect the enjoyment of pets by all Americans.
        Your side also claimed 25 percent of all shelter dogs are purebred. When 99 percent of the so called purebreds I have seen come from any shelter were unidentifiable mixes that may only share a coloration or ear carriage as the named purebred. Which falls on marketing.
        If a breeder sold a dog claiming it to be a purebred and it was not. A law suit could and would arise. But these shelters seem exempt from using honesty as a business practice.. Which they use strongly to their advantage.
        The HSUS kills dogs with their words. And sometimes their actions. They called for the vick dogs to all be killed. And, with their lies and with their greed for money and power.
        Why again is it ok for a shelter or rescue to euthnize a healthy animal after having the animal for a very short time. Kept in conditions a breeder would be written up for.
        Yet if a breeder decides their dog would be better off humanely euthnized instead of being forced into a broken unregulated rescue system. A system which is the number one supplier of research dogs?

        Do you really love dogs Shelley? I am not seeing this.

  11. Mary says:

    It is really sad the number of people that cannot see the big picture. Image what would happen if real estate agents could only sell one house per month, if restaurants could only serve 50 meals per day, car sales people could only sell one car a week… they would all be out of business.

    How can you not see that the only people being hurt by this legislation is the GOOD licensed breeders. The illegals do not care and operate outside the law. The substandard breeders are not going to change anything either, because they do not care. LAWS are not going to change that… better enforcement is the only answer. WHY is HSUS not putting money where it will really help? Because they are NOT about helping animals. How can you not see that. How is this going to help anything. Imagine how great things would be if HSUS put the money they spend on lobbying and lies on ANIMALS!

    1. Shelley says:

      Businesses have been regulated in MIssouri for a long time. Most of the time, most of the businesses don’t like the new regulations. However, most also know that new regulations is a part of being in the business.

      For some reason, commercial dog breeders seem to believe they should be exempt from new or modified business regulations. I wonder how other businesses will react when they see dog breeders get special treatment?

      Last year the state representatives created a new law that strongly restricted adult entertainment venues in the Missouri. The owners of these businesses have sued based on Constitutional grounds. They have also stated their businesses have been harmed, many have closed, workers let go.

      Should the state representatives then reconsider this bill? After all, special consideration for one business implies special consideration for all businesses.

      1. Mary says:

        Ironic that you would say this Shelley since you are a special interest group!

      2. marq says:

        Okay then let us apply Proposition B to all shelters, rescues and foster groups. Keep it fair.

      3. Joan A says:

        Dog breeders in Missouri are already regulated McFly.

      4. Amy says:

        It’s quite sad that selling/breeding dogs is a business at all. It’s quite disgusting actually. I hate that people are profiting off these poor pups.

      5. Joan A says:

        Shelley Dog kennels in Missouri are already regulated. But, other business are not regulated to the point where they are forced to work upside down.With negative profits. Especially with regulations that are unconstitutional. No other business has ever been forced to have limits. No other industry has been forced to follow rules that have no educational reason behind it. Based solely on emotion, with absolutely no professional research. I have zero problem with research done on what the best method of kenneling dogs is.. What is the best flooring. What is the best kennel size. For each specific breed and breed type. What are the best temperatures. What are the best breeding practices, and how often should dog be bred. And real data on where shelter dogs come from. And what are the best vaccine regiments along with stress disease prevention. I would like to know how to stop excess dogs from entering shelters. Research on genetic temperament. Research done by real accredited institutes. The list is long. To date there are no real studies used to form Prop B . It was formed by a bunch of radical extremist.

  12. Kent says:

    This is no longer America. This is Nazi Germany and Frau Schmitz is in charge.
    Get with the program. We punish everyone by association. Now the poor dogs are headed to the death needles, if they are lucky.

  13. Shelley says:

    Be aware of some outlandish claims that will be made in these comments. You’ll hear stories about dumpsters full of dead dogs, or how rescues won’t help the breeders.

    Unless the people back up their comments with something tangible, chances are they’re spreading the same type of misinformation that happened during the Proposition B vote.

    1. Joan A says:

      Wow Shelley Misinformation LOL how long before you are willing to follow your people the rest of the way off that cliff?

  14. Kent says:

    Yes Shelley and friends are the ones to watch for in the lie fiesta. You know the one where everyone has a “mill.” She is the mafia Queen’s princess.
    Wonder how much dough they are making off of all those benevolent donations.

    1. Shelley says:

      And I don’t work for any animal welfare organization, or am paid by any organization for my involvement.

      I am nothing more than a concerned MIssouri citizen.

      Can we say the same of you, Kent?

      1. marq says:

        Missourians know who you are Shelley.
        We’ve done our research.

  15. JudithDVM says:

    Yes Shelley Proposition B is already having a detrimental effect. Your propaganda stated that the Missouri shelter were full with animals that could not be placed. We had clients who had private relationships with rescues and foster groups. Your fear mongering had an adverse effect. Donations went down and out of fear of the major fall out that is going to happen in the next year, several of our groups stopped taking those dogs that were being retired. So here we are with needles in hand. You have no stake in it other than running your trap about what you do not know. This is the reality of prop B.

    1. Shelley says:

      I find your assertions unlikely to be true. Do you have any way to verify your statements?

      An Indiana English bulldog group just rescued several dogs released by one breeder downsizing. A Colorado group rescued a mix of dogs from a couple of other breeders who downsized.

      So which rescues have been so impacted? Which ones need the donations? After all, perhaps we can help them.

      1. Lance says:

        Why don’t these groups rescue out of Missouri shelters? Take the dogs that are scheduled for euthanasia?

  16. Shelley says:

    Yes Mary, I am a special interest group:

    I’m a Missouri voter.

  17. Lance says:

    I remember all those statements about how the shelters were just so full that they didn’t know what they were going to do and then they make the statement that they have all these wonderful homes for the kennel dogs. Excuse me but does this make any sense? Furthermore it is unconstitutional and goes against our rights as Americans. Prop B is a farce written with the intent to run people out of business. They knew exactly what they were doing. I just heard that their next game is planned for Washington State. No eggs sold unless they come from grass poultry. They have an agenda folks!

  18. Mary says:

    ANYONE who supports prop B supports HSUS… that is enough reason to say NO!

    1. Shelley says:

      Actually, that’s not necessarily true.

      Proposition B is about commercial dog breeders in Missouri. It is not about HSUS.

      Just out of curiosity, are you working, directly or indirectly, for HumaneWatch? You don’t have to answer, I’m just curious.

      1. Mary says:

        Nope I do not work for anyone… I am self employed and not a dog breeder!!!!

      2. Mary says:

        Who do you work for? Do you work directly or indirectly for HSUS? How much are they paying you?

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Shelley, you are clueless HSUS drafted the bill, paid for the signature gatherers, fought for it in court, paid 4 million dollars to promote it with lying emotional television commercials, paid people like you to promote and argue it online, put up billboards to influence the capitol, and now Wayne Pacelle is browbeating the legislators to keep it in force. Tell me again that it is not about HSUS!!! It has HSUS fingerprints over every word!!!

      4. John says:

        So why has Wayne Pacelle been in Missouri so much lately??? Talk about LIES Shelley. And Shelley the truth is that most of the comments that you don’t agree with are actually real people that live in Missouri, honest people who work hard, who help each other, who are concerned about humanity. The people here that you disagree with are people who first handedly know that YOU and H$U$ are the liars, they are strong, brave people who deserve their rights. It is intersting to me that all of you humanies dislike humanWatch so much. You have this ideology that you all are right and any one who doesn’t see it your way is just wrong. You do sound like Hitler, the more you talk the more you remind me of him, or any other control driven manic in society. That is obvious how you quickly discount JudithDVM. comments, just because she doesn’t agree with you.

  19. marq says:

    We know they can’t resist that $120 million that comes in annually afterall shelters don’t see it. They don’t educate with it either. Hmmmm where do you suppose all that dough goes to.

    1. Shelley says:

      marq, you work, directly or indirectly, for HumaneWatch, don’t you?

      1. marq says:

        Sorry Shelley
        I work for the USDA.

  20. Shelley says:

    marq, I’ve never hidden who I am. You can see who I am in the bio for this article on Proposition B

    You’re welcome to comment in that thread, but you have to use your real name.

    1. Joan A says:

      Shelley you are a very bias, and a very poor reporter. I was at that hearing

      “””” Judge Jon Beetem upheld the language of the ballot initiative, ruling that it was neither “insufficient nor unfair.”

      In addition, the term “puppy mill” was defined in the case of Avenson v. Zegart, 577 F. Supp. 958, 960 (D. Minn. 1984): “A ‘puppy mill’ is a dog breeding operation in which the health of the dogs is disregarded in order to maintain a low overhead and maximize profits.”


      Judge beetum was given a different defintion of the term puppy mill . An online definton was used. Not the one you offered.
      : a commercial farming operation in which purebred dogs are raised in large numbers

      Huge difference. very misleading.. The St Louis HS lawyers were arguing it was not a derogatory term with negative meaning.When in fact in Your article it is.
      Shelley you are on ever forum every comment to do with Prop B.. People like you fighting to destroy the US constitution. By destroying thousands of strangers lives. and millions of pet owners. Is very suspect. What is your story?? it has got to be very interesting.

      1. Robert says:

        I’m guessing frigid, 20 to 40 something female professional.

  21. Mary says:

    WOW so you want to compare adult entertainment with dog breeding!!!!

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Shelley has been fixated on the porn subject. Do you suppose………..?

      1. Mary says:

        Maybe she is a disgruntled star!!!

    2. Shelley says:

      They are both businesses in Missouri that have had new regulations applied in the last year.

      If the state representatives feel justified in adding new regulations for one industry, why can’t new regulations be applied to other industries?

      If the representatives state that they cannot adjust business regulations, or cause economic impact to an industry in Missouri, then they leave themselves open to a challenge about other recent decisions about business regulations.

      I imagine if we take a closer look, we’ll find several other business regulations passed by the state legislature that were not welcome by those businesses. Why, then, is it acceptable for one type of industry, but not another?

      1. Robert says:

        How about we address the rules and regulations that “non-profit” groups are supposed to be held to. Let’s take a look at HSUS and what they do with all that “non-profit” money each year.

  22. Tom DVM says:

    I found it rather funny that they couldn’t find anyone of those 190,000 folks to do those on air debates. Our colleague had to debate Schmitz twice and then Pacelle himself. Shall we talk about Ms. Schmitz and her lying tongue?

  23. Sandi Belless says:

    I have NO idea who this Shelley women is, but she does not have a clue. She said that good breeders will find loving homes for all thier unwanted dogs. YEA RIGHT Maybe all you breeders in Missouri should load all your dogs up, that you have to get rid of, and put them in MISS SHELLEYS yard and let her find good loving homes for them. Then she might get it. Don’t forget,Miss Shelley. Perfect care and clean water!!!!

  24. smilingirlinmo says:

    OMG people! Can’t we just agree to disagree. Smear campaigns have happened on both sides & now it’s gotten ugly. I’m truly sorry I commented.

    1. Joan A says:

      hardly smiling.. There is only one smear and that is Prop B

  25. Betty says:

    I would like to know who is going to pay my loans?
    Guess I can claim bankruptcy and go on welfare.
    You folks can pay for my kids lunches, healthcare etc….
    My husband and I will drop our health insurance and you can pay for our health issues also. This is the American way that we avoided by being good kennel owners. Now that is over.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Send your bills to Shelley! She can pay ’em or send ’em on to HSUS if she changes her mind about how much she loves Prop B!
      Do you think she will build a new kennel for me, since mine is now illegal per Prop B?

  26. ptbamdb says:

    Seriously, it is crystal clear that the people who voted for Prop B do NOT know what they have done. They keep talking about the bad breeders that will be punished somehow. This is just a huge joke on Missouri voters perpetrated by the Humane Society of the United States. HSUS first identified the target (which is legal, licensed breeders) as puppy mills to confuse the voters. After all, the puppy mills are the bad guys, aren’t they? OOPS, HSUS lied! Call the good breeders by a bad name and trick the voters into regulating them out of business.

  27. bequalsbroke says:

    Licensed kennel owners do not want illegal kennels any more than those that voted Yes on B. The HSUS took videos of the unlicensed kennels, hoarders and kennels from before there were inspections and used them to convince you that all kennels were like this. They are not. If they were, why are not more licensed kennels closed down? HSUS is a clever machine. They took the worse examples of dog owners and applied it to all aspects of the dog industry. That’s like using a person speeding in their car and deciding the way stop speeders is to only allow a maximum horsepower that will never go over the speed limit. Oh and while we are at it, one car per household. I know it doesn’t sound fair, but neither is limiting the amount of dogs one can own as most dog breeders aren’t just one individual, its a family affair or they employ helpers.

    I have a cute little kennel, less than 50 dogs with 15 foot long runs for my dogs to run outside then come back in for warm beds, food and water at their leisure. But my inside areas will not conform unless I cut the amount of dogs I have in half. Ok, and if I then do that and one happy little boy pees in his water before the inspector gets out there I will be facing 15 days in jail for my first offense and up to 10 years for my second. Then, who will tend my dogs?
    I know this is not what the Prop B supporters initially intended but it is what will happen. So how do you stop the unlicensed and the horders??

    1. Robert says:

      You don’t and they do not care because prop b is carefully made series of land mines that they want you to fail at. Why? Because there agenda is to end all breeding of animals. Look at what happened in Tennessee. It started at 50 dogs and now they lowered it to 20. They have ruined it in Virginia, Pa and so on….
      Look at home many shelters they broke financially with the fall out.

    2. Shelley says:

      If you have a kennel with sufficient room, indoor and outdoor access, and less than 50 dogs, why do you feel you have to get rid of half your dogs?

      As for water, I’m not aware that dogs pee in their water dishes. I’ve had dogs and not one has. Or pooped in their water dishes either.

      The reason for the law is that too many legally licensed breeders have water dishes that have algae growing in them, or haven’t been cleaned out in days, sometimes weeks.

      1. Robert says:

        Shelley, I hope our legislature reads this one particular post as it validates everything that we’ve been pointing out. You have not one clue about animal husbandry or animals. You live in a fantasy land. Dogs do poop and pee as they are not little stuffed creatures that whisper funny little thoughts and yes they do make messes in their bowls. How sad that our society has been this far from the farm and common sense.

      2. Joan A says:

        so you know the practices of every licensed breeder in the state of Missouri? Were you not aware that green slime in the water bowls is already a serious write up?
        Why do you feel dog breeding is so special that they all must be judged by their worse representatives?
        I know about plenty of very poor rescues. Poor vets. Poor groomers. Poor dog trainers. Poor Shelters. And poor humane societies and SPCA’s all who have done deplorable things. Yet the rest of those within the same industry are not judged by those very bad examples?
        Demonizing Dog Breeders is causing the exact same implications as demonizing lets say the Pit Bull breed. It is causing more negative issues within . Never in the history of man has a ban or prohibition. Ended a negative venture. Everytime.It only made matters worse . And when the venture has profit potential. The banning, and ostracizing will always cause a real criminal element. You do not appear to be that stupid. Ignorant maybe . But not stupid. I beg of you to wake up .Because you are helping to create a nightmare for our dogs that we all love.

  28. Shelley says:

    If any state representatives are reading these comments, I hope you look closely at the type of comments from those against Proposition B. Most are ugly, personal attacks–against me, against HSUS, against anyone that doesn’t agree with them.

    This is the side you’re choosing if you decide to vote to repeal or amend Proposition B.

    Since these comments are not moderated, and since people can comment anonymously, and are indulging in vile personal attacks, I won’t continue to comment here.

    1. smilingirlinmo says:

      amen sister!

    2. ptbamdb says:

      Vile personal attack is what Barbara Schmitz HSUS employee did to Dr. Foster during a Prop B debate, accusing him of having a wife and 500 puppymill dogs.
      Vile personal attack is what HSUS did and continues to do, calling us legal, respectable breeders puppymills. I am sick of being slandered by everyone who voted for Prop B. And you complain? You can just stop posting and go back to your day job.
      We have to live with HSUS lies and deceits. This is our lives, our futures, our cherished dogs we raised from puppies and are being told we must give them up because we have too many. We are being forced to build new buildings when we have industry-approved better facilities already. Some are still paying on these kennels. What are they going to do? This is not a game to us.

      1. Caleb says:

        They are a terror group. They will do anything to win. This is what happened when they were allowed to not follow the non profit rules. Big money at work again.

  29. ptbamdb says:

    OMG! You have never seen a dog pee in their waterbowl? Some little stud dogs think it is their private toilet bowl.
    Got news for you, Shelley. In the summertime, algae grows in the water buckets everyday! Back when I had dogs on the concrete like HSUS wants us to revert to, it was a daily ritual to powerwash water buckets. After awhile, the green would stain the white bucket, and it would look bad but be clean. I started using black fortex bowls, but still had to powerwash every day. They didn’t stain so bad, though. Algae is a natural growing substance that is not poisonous to the dogs.

    1. Caleb says:

      Shelley is no doubt an Animal Planet girl who volunteered at a pet shelter in between piano lessons I have to wonder if she has ever done a days work in her life. She needs to spend a year on the farm and then maybe she would appreciate humans instead of putting her emotions into animals.

    2. Shelley says:

      Algae grows in water bowls only when the bowls are not thoroughly cleaned every day. Are you arguing against cleaning water bowls thoroughly, at least once a day? And filling them with fresh water?

      Is that asking too much of Missouri dog breeders

      Do you find cleaning water bowls thoroughly, daily, too onerous a task? Or making sure your dogs have access to clean water when they need it?

  30. bequalsbroke says:

    Inspectors are going to be required to treat dirty water as dirty water. Yes you want to say that it only applies to algae but the law does not say algae does it? No. Who wants to take the chance that the inspector is only looking for algae? Have you ever seen a dog that washes its feet? It will only take one.

    I will have to get rid of half my dogs because, although I could easily meet the outside space requirements, I cannot meet the inside requirements. Even thought my dogs are not crowed, they are comfy warm or cooled, can run free in or out, prop b requirements will put me out of business. I have been doing this for over 10 years. Inspectors love the place. Even AKC gave me a certificate. But according to these new requirements I will no longer be providing healthy, well socialized pupppies with nice pedigrees, lineage, and free of defects.

  31. Terry Ward says:

    How is it possible that SO many people in one place are so dreadfully deficient in the basic skills of english grammar?

    Spluttering baseless accusations and illucid talk of ‘nazis’
    and ceaseless conspiracy theories?

    How can this possibly help your cause?
    Do you not understand that the rest of the world sees all this anti-humane blather as coming from uneducated morons and fringe lunatics?

    1. ptbamdb says:

      I just knew the crazy lady from Pennsylvania wouldn’t be able to resist butting in on Missouri’s business yet again. You are late to the party, Terry. And you came without an invitation again. This is a Missouri discussion about Missouri. It has nothing to do with Pennsylvania.

      1. Shelley says:

        Terry is as welcome to comment here as anyone. I don’t believe most of the anti-HSUS folks here are from Missouri either.

        Including marq, who “says” he works for the USDA.

        Terry’s point is valid, but you all don’t seem to get it: You’re not trying to convince voters now, but state representatives. There isn’t one who is going to want to side with a group that brings up Hitler and accuses people of attacking the Constitution.

        I’m not trying to help the anti-B folks, but I, and Terry, are trying to get the discussions focused on tangibles, rather than barely literate personal attacks, and the worst form of dialog I have ever seen–and this only a little over a week after Congresswoman Giffords was shot by a lunatic.

        Is this how the anti-Prop B people want to be seen? Incapable of arguing for your side? Personal attacks by anonymous commenters? Incapable of backing up anything you say?

        Again I say to the Missouri state representatives: is this who you want to side with?

      2. Grocerman says:

        Do our representatives really want our agriculture in the hands of a special interest group? Do Missourians want to go broke trying to feed their families. This is the issue. Prop B is the first step into our food supply. The legislators attempted to stop this kind of action and the ballot inititative was the last ditch effort. Do you think that you have won any favors with them by making false accusations against those who have done nothing wrong? Do you think that your accusations that we are all mills and that we are cruel hold well with those who know differently? If B is the wise and wonderful thing, then you need to set the example and apply it to rescues and shelters.

    2. Joan A says:

      The laymen of this world . Who do not spend their livelihoods playing English grammar and spelling police. Do not appreciate snobbish attacks on their education. Education is also not an indication of IQ. In your world you would only allow those who write and speak in a way acceptable to you. To have a voice? In reality. America feels no matter your ethic back ground, accent, or grasp of Proper English language. That your voice is important . We have a voice. Please try and keep up. Regardless of the grade you choose to give our words.

      To my fellow bad spellers and poor writers. Let your voice be heard 🙂

      1. Grocerman says:

        It wasn’t the scholars that won this country in the Revolutionary War it was the rural folks.

  32. Don says:

    Isn’t it amazing what people can do to other people when they get ahold of millions of dollars?

  33. Terry Ward says:

    ptbamdb either does not grasp the basics of interstate commerce or believes that Missouri has seceded from the Union.
    Proving my previous point.

  34. Don says:

    Actually Terry is the one who is uneducated and no doubt sociopathic. She and her kind use animals to fill their own mental needs. I’m guessing she cannot maintain a normal human bond. She is propbably single and professional. May not like men. Most don’t want or even like children. This is the same type of movement like Prohibition and look where that ended up. Vegan?

  35. Terry Ward says:

    Don could not have proved my point better if he had tried!
    Baseless accusations and borderline literacy..

  36. Sharon says:

    Terry represents that segment of city dwellers who leave their dogs crated all day while they go off to their professional jobs. Vets are making millions by selling drugs like Clomicalm because those dogs are mental messes. My sociology professor did a special segment on animal activists. Terry fits the profile.

  37. Terry Ward says:

    Sharon also proving my point with baseless accusations, strange allegations and barely 5th grade language skils.

  38. Kevin says:

    Terry it is emotional. When you take peoples lives and turn them upside down this is what you get in response. You wouldn’t understand because you aren’t capable of putting yourself in someone elses shoes. You think you are some educated enlightened person when in fact you are the one who has no heart.
    You can spout off all you want about your intelligence and language skills. Frankly, you aren’t interesting enough to even make us sick.

  39. Terry Ward says:

    Kevin, proving my point ALSO with baseless allegations, loopy syntax and a COMPLETE inability to make a point without some silly attempt at character assassination…

  40. Jon says:

    Gov. Nixon just stated that his goal is to maintain jobs and to cut spending without raising taxes. It was stated that it will take nearly one million dollars to put prop b on the books. Prop B will also put several families and businesses out of work. I was told that legislature has the option not to even fund it. I was also just told that there are several pending lawsuits that will be thrown at it. I have a neighbor who had a fantastic state of the art kennel. He just shipped his dogs over the line into Illinois to another kennel that is partnering with them. Illinois will now enjoy the profits of this former Missouri kennel.

    1. Shelley says:

      Proposition B will impact on few jobs. Many fewer jobs will be impacted then have been impacted by other legislation passed in the last five years.

      And no, dog breeding is not a major source of income in the state. If anything, it’s the opposite, as having to clean up after the large scale breeders costs the state money. Plus, there has been a problem with Missouri dog breeders either not reporting their income, or under-reporting it.

      There are already existing laws on the books that fund Proposition B.

      If there are lawsuits, fine: let’s see them. It is better that this goes to court than that the state representatives allow a special interest group to override the will of the people.

      People have said, including some state representatives, that Proposition B is “Unconstitutional”. But no one has been willing to say in what way? To back up vague assertions with actual, tangible statements that can then either be verified or refuted.

      1. Joan A says:

        Shelley You keep claiming to be a common citizen.. Either you have no life, and you are obsessed with this issue. An issue that really has nothing to do with you.. Or you do work for the HSUS or friends as claimed..

        I was witness to a very interesting argument to what you are trying to imply here..

        The HSUS states Missouri puts out 1 million puppies a year

        Average cost 350 so that is 350 million dollars. The cost in dog flood to feed those million puppies to legal selling age is aprox 5.50 each puppy Vaccines per puppy ( if the breeder purchases and administers them only) is 10 dollars a puppy micro chip is 7 to 13 dollars ( if a breeder purchases and administers only) A puppy Transportation by plane is 200 dollars a puppy by truck is between 60 dollars to the pet store to 200 dollars to a private home. to produce a million puppies you need mom and dog dogs to produce the puppies. This list goes on and on what it cost to produce those puppies. Many businesses feed their families selling and caring for those puppies.
        Without needing the parents. Housing the parents, paying inspection fees gas,electric, advertising etc. The above number is up to
        more then half a billion dollars and that is estimating it on the low side. Adding the cost of the parents care, kennel fees, kennel material and buildings, electric, gas, transportation. There will be millions of jobs lost. Not just directly with the dog breeders themselves but those they support, ands businesses that make money directly from them
        Opps forgot the big one vet exams by law no puppy can leave this state unless it has a health certificate which cost between 10 to 30 dollars lets meet in the middle at 15 million how many vet clinics which employee animal lovers will go out of business?

        As for the state paying is inspectors. I know for a very clear fact that Missouri department of ag dog inspection program already has to pull from general funds to continue running their program. With all the breeders going out and none planning to come back if prop B stands it will cost the tax payers to run the then law enforcement program because that will be all that is left.., law enfoldment trying to find all the under ground black market puppy mills. That you created. bootleg puppies

  41. Evan says:

    Missourians were just the victims of a special interest group who came from outside toting a bag of money. Barbara Schmitz was caught red handed in a major lie against a practicing veterinarian. We know that your group will do anything to win. The next phase of your cause will be to launch an attack against pork and poultry producers. You do not have the rigtht to deprive someone of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness even if that means owning more than 50 dogs.

    1. Shelley says:

      Over 190,000 MIssourians signed to put Proposition B on the ballot. 51.6% of Missourians voted for Proposition B.

      Unless you want to question every ballot item, including some political races, that received “outside” money, Proposition B passed via legitimate vote, via a State Constitutionally allowed citizen initiative.

  42. Cliff says:

    Proposition B is a joke. I have 100 dogs and my neighbors have agreed to take my excess dogs. I’m going to divide the profit amongst them for their help. People like Terry and Shelly can kiss my whazoo. You aren’t going to run me out of business. I love my dogs and I am not giving them to some whackadoo hoarder.

    1. Shelley says:

      Then I commend you in finding a good home for your dogs. I hope they enjoy their retirement from the breeding business, and have a lot of fun running around, playing, and getting lots of affection.

  43. Terry Ward says:

    ‘Evan’ should return to his Texas puppy-mill and re-assume his actual identity… the raving, barely coherent ‘DRrosset’.

  44. Cliff says:

    My it would seem that Evan hit a nerve or perhaps he pulled the curtain back on the all knowing wizard.

  45. SherryDVM says:

    We started a letter writing campaign to educate the public about HSUS and their hidden agendas. The response has been overwhelming and people are waking up. Those monthly donations are being cancelled. We’ve encouraged our clients to make donations to the veterinary scholarship funds and to donate feed and supplies to local shelters. The HSUS scam is about to hit the brick wall.

    1. Joan A says:

      love this idea sherry we need more studies. So we can take better care of our wonderful pets 🙂 because the HSUS does not love dogs.. Nor are they responsiable with the funds they arer freely given

  46. Jason and Michelle says:

    We also cancelled our giving to HSUS. Our neighborhood started a fund to help those people who are traveling for medical treatments. Times are tough and people are in trouble in this country.

    1. Shelley says:

      Fine. And what does this have to do with Proposition B?

  47. Terry Ward says:

    Cliff proves our point in a more creative manner…
    He raves of ‘excess dogs’ and ‘dividing profits’ and ‘giving away’ 50 dogs to a ‘neighbor’ ..
    Does this ‘neighbor’ have adequate experience and facilities for ’50 ‘ breeding dogs?
    Has Cliff worked out the tax ramifications of such a ‘partnership’ with his neighbor?
    Does ‘Cliff’ plan maybe to hop the fence twice a week and toss a few bones?

  48. Terry Ward says:

    If Jessica Bryand wishes to assume silly names and false identities, she might restrain her use of her particularly identifiable rhetoric

  49. Cliff says:

    Cliff and his new business partners have it all worked out Terry! The wife of one of his new partners does all of our taxes. We live in a farming community and we have plenty of facilities for the dogs. Thanks for your concern. By the way, we automated feeding and watering. Evidently you are behind on the times and have no idea how we actually raise dogs. I haven’t used a water bowl for years.

    1. Shelley says:

      You might use automated devices, but many breeders don’t.

      Plus, even automatic food and water dispensers have to be clean. And the food source has to be kept in such a way that it isn’t contaminated.

      You’re giving an impression that you spend as little time as possible caring for the dogs.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Shelley, Shelley, Shelley. Always asking for proof from everyone else, but spouting lie after lie without the tiniest shred of proof yourself.
        How many licensed kennels did you say you have seen? Oh, yes. NONE.
        Can you prove that ‘not many’ breeders have auto waterers and feeders? I also want to see proof of even ONE licensed breeder keeping a dog “in a wire stacked cage 6 inches longer than the dog drenched in poo and pee from above, outside without shelter for all of its life”. Can you prove up that one? You and HSUS puppets have said it often enough. Makes an emotional picture, BUT IT IS A LIE TOLD BY HSUS. Does NOT happen in licensed kennels in Missouri.
        By the way, I absolutely spend the LEAST amount of time possible with everyday feeding, watering and cleaning. Your reasoning is idiotic. Using automated systems leave more time for hands-on care of the dogs. This would change with Prop B. Ground level concrete or dirt is impossible to keep clean and will require intensive and constant cleaning. The dogs will get LESS time being with the breeders because of the extra workload. Gee, with Prop B, it seems that the REAL losers are always the dogs!

      2. Harold says:

        No the false allegations that you and your kind are being shot down. We keep our feedstuffs in gravity flow bins and we use nipple waterers. We spend more time with our dogs than do individual owners. This is our job and our profession. You can’t stand to be proven wrong and will say anything. You have become posessed by it.

  50. Lee says:

    I’m still amazed at how illiterate and uninformed city folk truly have become. Too far from the farm and common sense.

  51. Shawn says:

    LMAO, My dogs are on full feed and water. Totally automated. Do these people think that all breeders hand feed each day? Man are they totally out of the loop.
    All I have to do is flip a switch in our kennel. Unlike our city friends, our dogs don’t have to wait all day for us to toss them a bone.

    1. Shelley says:

      But feeders and water dispensers have to be cleaned. This is something you can’t do by flipping a switch.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        It may seem like a big job to you, Shelley, but in a modern, upscale kennel there are many features built-in specifically to make it easier to keep clean, dispense food and water, and generally make things nicer and more comfortable for the dogs. You really need to check out what a modern pre-Prop B kennel really is! Of course, if Prop B survives, soon dogs will be back to where they were 30 years ago, before improvements.

      2. Shawn says:

        They are stainless steel nipple waterers and flow feeders. If they are dirty we do clean them and no it is not required every day. That is the joy of technology but you wouldn’t know that because you are uninformed.

  52. Shawn says:

    Terry are you really that dumb?

  53. Terry Ward says:

    And if SherryDVM’s language skills represent the quality of education and intelligence enjoyed by Missouri’s veterinarians, Missouri’s agriculture is in VERY deep doody.
    Wayne is the LEAST of your problems.

  54. SherryDVM says:

    I have the degree and the language skills to educate my clients and the public. The results have been amazing. What is that old saying? “The jig is up?”
    People like Terry fear the veterinary profession. We are the true credible ones in this situation.

  55. TimDVM says:

    If they install lie detectors in the capitol, Wayne and Babs are doomed.

  56. Karen says:

    The HSUS campaign also opened our eyes. We have also ended our charitable donations to HSUS.

  57. Rita says:

    I volunteered in a local shelter. People have no idea how mismanaged alot of these shelters are. I witnessed several cases of huge amounts of money being spent on dogs that should have been euthanized. These dogs were strays that had serious medical conditions. Hundreds of dollars spent only to result in the dogs being euthanized in the end because they were not adoptable. This is one major reason that shelters are full. It is because the people running them are not capable of making logical medical decisions.

    1. Shelley says:

      Rita, I find it unlikely that any shelter will keep a dog alive with such serious medical conditions. What kind?

      And what does this have to do with Proposition B?

      1. Shawn says:

        Prop B should apply to everyone or no one.

  58. Terry Ward says:

    Large scale proof of my argument …
    ‘Tossing a bone’ is a commonly used and understood figure of speech.
    To assume that it was meant literally reveals much.
    We advise not ‘ running’ with that particular bone.

    1. Amy says:

      Our shelter received alot of help from local breeders. Please pay special attention to received. They all got together and cut us off financially. These people helped us financially with donations and some of them donated their time. There was alot of goodwill out there and I’m afraid Prop B has killed that. You can go on and on about facts and figures but this is the hard cold reality.

      1. Shelley says:

        What shelter, Amy? If your shelter is hurting for money, let us know the name and perhaps we can help.

      2. Joan A says:

        wow shelley you do not work for the HSUS but have the power with an us to fund an entire shelter?? Sounds to me like you are a fibber

  59. Amy says:

    Rita, you forgot the idiots that think they can tame the feral cats. I worked in a shelter that had about 50 feral cats that no one could decide what to do with. We had a woman that trapped them all over the city and dumped them on us. One of the girls in the facility was obsessed with everyone of them and could not let go. It was a mess.

  60. Shelley says:

    Guys, stop it! Both sides, stop it!

    There is enough to discuss about Proposition B then to have these petty little squabbles in these comments.

    What will it take to get everyone to re-focus back on topic? Or is it absolutely hopeless?

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Face it, Shelley. It is totally hopeless to separate HSUS from Prop B. The two are so intertwined that HSUS is bound to be a MAJOR part of the Prop B discussion. So, like it or not, just get used to it. HSUS = Prop B.

      1. Beth says:

        Prop B would never have happened if it weren’t for HSUS.

    2. Joan A says:

      But shelley there are two sides, and as long as they are divided animals suffer. You want only one side.. it is very obvious.. I am proud to see rescue and breeder working together that is the way it should be. That is the way it use to be. divided we all fall. And little jane or johny will never get that puppy for christmas

  61. Beth says:

    Shelley an friends
    It isn’t just about money. It is also about man power and good will.
    We had community spirit here is south mo. with our breeders. They donated time to us in our efforts. There kids would come and walk dogs on weekends when we were short on volunteer help.Now they will not step foot on our place. Prop B killed it.
    We are disbanding at the end of the month. Our rescue is over.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      How can anyone be surprised that there are now hard feelings between dog breeders and shelters/rescues? Prop B exempts shelters and rescues from all the provisions of Prop B. They are aligned with HSUS against legal dog breeders, no matter how they really feel about Prop B. You might be surprised that some rescues I know voted and helped campaign AGAINST Prop B.

      1. Emily says:

        We campaigned against it because we knew that this would happen. I had no idea that it would be this bad.

  62. Hannibal Mo says:

    Our local shelter in Hannibal refused to take a position because they knew the repercussions and they made a public statement on tv that alot of good innocent kennels would be put out of business.

  63. Stan says:

    Just heard that there is heavy discussion on repealing the horse slaughter ban. Another failed activist plan. How many starving horses paid the price on that blunder?

  64. Stan says:

    Schmitz: KMOX liar of the week.

  65. Frank says:

    Had to laugh on that last one Stan. I have a friend at KMOX and that debate with Schmitz was a hoot. Talk about belly flop! 100% exposure of her on air live. All of Missouri was talking after her little escapade.

  66. Glenn Murphy says:

    First of all everyone is against Puppy mills. This bill will do nothing to eliminate even one puppy mill. Punishing the breeders that do it the right way will not stop the bad guys. The way it was before Prop B was that anyone who had 10 or more intact females had to be licensed by the FDA. These people were inspected a minimum of twice per year. The Government was already taking care of the problem. The real problem in MO is, there aren’t enough animal control people to get the job done. If the 4.6 Million that was spent distorting the facts by the HSUS and PETA had been put into more enforcement we could have actually have made a difference.

    1. Frank says:

      100% correct Glenn!

    2. Shelley says:

      Actually, you have some errors in your statement.

      No one has to be licensed with the USDA unless they sell puppies to brokers and/or pet stores. If you sell online or word of mouth, you don’t have to be licensed by the USDA.

      Second, if you have three or more intact dogs and sell puppies as pets, you have to be licensed by Missouri Dept of Ag.

      Neither of these agencies inspects twice a year unless a problem. Unfortunately, neither agency inspects all breeders once a year.

      Lastly, there was no distortion of facts, just things you didn’t agree with. And private funds cannot be used to pay federal or state inspector wages.

      1. Linda says:

        Wrong again Shelley,
        In 2009, I was inspected in May and Nov.
        Our inspector does it twice each year.
        Glowing reports each time.

  67. Terry Ward says:

    Insults and name-calling from an anonymous hidey-hole is cowardly girly-man-speak.

  68. Frank says:

    Known liar was exposed Terry and all of Missouri heard it!

  69. Terry Ward says:

    LOTS of cowardly girlie-men on this thread.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      If you get scared, Terry, just run back to Pennsylvania so the girlie-men don’t get ya!! You just can’t cover up for the HSUS representative in MO, Barbara Schmitz’s big boo-boo!! She made an ass of herself and will never live it down in this crowd! Someone will ALWAYS remember and relate the BIG LIE she told!

      1. StevenDVM says:

        Barbara Schmitz threw up a wall between HSUS and our profession.
        Our clinic will never allow an HSUS investigator on our property again. They can go play law official somewhere else.

    2. Stan says:

      You are probably correct Terry. You probably have alot more hair on your legs and chest than most of us men on the thread.

  70. Frank says:

    Birkenstock Terry roars again!

  71. Chloe says:

    They run a smear campaign and don’t think that there will be a backlash?
    The best is yet to come. More info on HSUS is about to come out. Who will get caught in their mess?

  72. Glenn Murphy says:

    First of all MY NAME is right on my thread so how can you say I’m a cowardly-girly man? HSUS has mad the claim that they see all these dogs that are rmoved from Puppy Mills. I want to know how they do that since the HSUS doesn’t own ANY animal Shelters?????? The HSUS has nothing to do with the local humane society. 98% of the money the HSUS receives in donations is used to force legislation through and the other 2% is spent on fund rasing to make more money to spend on getting legislation through. When you can’t come up with a logical arguement start calling peopl names. The Libs like you have been ding that for years.

  73. Terry Ward says:

    At the end of the day I will be Terry Ward and you all will STILL be cowardly girlie-men.

    1. Stan says:

      At the end of the year we will still be in the kennel business with the same amount of dogs that we own now.

    2. Venice says:

      Not something I would be bragging about Terry! You sound like a ass.

  74. Terry Ward says:

    Glenn Murphy, i am reporting you for the murder of the english language.

  75. Richard says:

    Yes we have also found places for our excess dogs and the folks with Prop B can sit back and wonder what happened to their foiled plot. Prop B will have zero effect on us. Amazing the amount of unused hog barns and poultry barns in this state. It was an easy conversion. Sorry Terry! Better luck next time!

  76. Terry Ward says:

    Stan, I am awarding you first prize prize for your outstanding half-wittedness!

  77. Richard says:

    Poor Terry
    So smart by her own decree and she just got outsmarted by a bunch of rednecks. She’ll be wondering a year from now what really happened. No doubt she will have to hire an egg head to research it all out for her and do a fancy 100 page thesis.

  78. Lauren says:

    We gave up our license last month and moved our dogs also. They are still in the neighborhood and I can tend to them without any problems. I kept 3 and the rest are out there. If they want to play dirty, so can we. I sell puppies privately and most go out of state. NO prop B for me! At the end of the year, I’ll still have my 70 dogs.

    1. Shelley says:

      If you sell puppies “privately” and aren’t licensed by the state or pay taxes on your sales, Proposition B will be the least of your problems.

      What you’re basically saying is that you don’t have the decency to follow the laws, yet the state representatives should override the will of the people in order to support someone line–who really isn’t interested in following laws.

      In other words, the state representatives should override the will of the people for those who willingly commit crimes.

      Not much different than a meth lab.

      1. Shelley says:

        Make that “someone like you–who really isn’t interested in following laws”

  79. Terry Ward says:

    Poor Richard..
    He does not understand that ignorance is not a matter for pride.
    “rednecks’ is actually your word, not mine.
    But, since you brought it up…
    “outsmarted by rednecks’ is an oxymoron,,
    And quite a funny one.

  80. Terry Ward says:

    Lauren proves my point better then I could have hoped.
    A perfect example of the quality of the puppy-mill crowd.

    And with that , I leave the sharks to swim their murky tank by themselves..
    Playing with morons is soooo boring..
    At least you have each other to play with.

  81. DavidontheHill says:

    Terry and Shelley are only on this thread for one reason. They are worried.
    We’ll let the politics play out .

    1. Shelley says:

      I won’t speak for Terry, but for myself, I cannot stand to see misinformation about this bill. Silly really, because I have better things to do with my time.

      I don’t believe that anyone not involved iis really following this thread.

      1. DavidontheHill says:

        Aren’t you really Barbara Schmitz?

  82. DavidontheHill says:

    The legislators that are reading this thread are seeing the futility of Proposition B. Missourians will take steps to protect their rights and their dogs. Those who have opted to farm out their dogs have done so and there is nothing unethical or illegal about their choice. Proposition B serves no function.

    1. Shelley says:

      Actually, no, you are talking about breaking the law. When you say “farm out”, what you’re implying is business as usual, but in violation of the law. This is neither legal or ethical.

      1. Martin says:

        Isn’t defaming someone on a KMOX radio show illegal and unethical?

  83. DavidontheHill says:

    They are the owners of these dogs. They can do with them whatever they want. If they choose to give them to a neighbor, they can without breaking the law. If that new owner has 3 breeding females, sells puppies and splits it with the previous owner , it is perfectly legal.

    1. Shelley says:

      True, if each person takes care of fewer than three dogs, in different locations, then there is no problem…except you still have to pay taxes when you sell the puppies.

      If each person has three or more intact adults for the expression purpose of breeding for puppies to sell as pets, they have to be licensed with Missouri. If they sell to pet stores, brokers, or research labs, they still have to be licensed with the USDA. And they will still be inspected annually.

      1. Shelley says:

        express purpose, not expression purpose.

  84. Stan says:

    I believe that I can give $12,000 each year as a gift. hmmmmm
    We’ve worked this all out with our tax preparer. We’ve also talked to our lawyer. Everything we are doing is legal.

    1. Shelley says:

      So Stan, what you’re saying is that Missouri state representatives should change an existing law, disregarding a legitimate vote, for people who are trying to find ways of avoiding any law.

      Do continue.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        I guess that just goes to show how unworkable, impossible, and utterly wrong that Prop B is. The legislators already know this and are working to correct the flaws and problems in Prop B. Let them do their job!!!

      2. Harold says:

        I think alot of people voted on false pretenses and were prey to alot of false information. I’ve talked to several people who had no idea what they were actually voting for and said if they had known they would have voted no. I aksed them to write legislators and they have. Some have also been calling their offices.

  85. Stan says:

    We aren’t avoiding the current laws imposed on us. We have followed the book by the exact way that we have been told to by our inspectors and to the letter of each of the 20 plus pages we were given. You do not have the right to ruin us financially. I borrowed money 3 yrs ago to expand and completely rebuild my facility. My loans depend on the amount of dogs that I currently have in my posession. What you are doing to us is wrong. We take great care of our dogs and we love them. I have a family to support. This is my sole income. Prop B is not good for dogs and anyone with any management skills knows that.It is nothing more than a ploy to end the kennel industry in this state. We will not lay down and take this from you. I can send my dogs anywhere that I want and there is nothing that you can do about it.

  86. Shelley says:

    Here’s a story about one of the dogs rescued from the Mexico dog auction last year.

    1. MattDVM says:

      I read that article and laughed. Do you know how many individual owner dogs I see each year with rotted teeth? I’ve even had them come in with jaws that were already fractured because of osteomyelitis of the bone due to abscessed teeth. You people try to make out like kennel folk are all the bad owners of the world. Look in the mirror. How many dogs have come into our practice with collars dug into their necks down to the spine? My groomer digs maggots out of dogs that people neglect in shearing. Then there are those wonderful activist owners that bloat their dogs up with table food and make them diabetic. Shelley you and your kind are nothing more than hypocrits and self obsessed social rejects.

      1. Shelley says:

        You read that story and laughed?!

      2. MattDVM says:

        I laughed because the writer’s intent and purpose was to put the blame on a kennel. Does this particular writer go out and write about individual owners and how they neglect dogs? This writer had political motive. Just another poor puppy activist agenda at work.

      3. Margaret says:

        MattDVM is correct. I just finished reading it. That writer was using a dog to go after a kennel. I groom professionally and I can verify what the dr. is saying. Individual owners do exactly the same thing as what that writer expressed in the article. It is nothing more than propaganda to play on people’s emotions. Are they going to go after individuals next?

    2. ptbamdb says:

      And what’s the point? Anything to do with Prop B? Oh my,a 5-year-old dog with bad teeth. How horrible. Gee, no missing limbs or broken bones or battle scars?
      By the way, that dog was not rescued. It was PURCHASED at the auction. Sounds like it would have been happier if it had gone to another kennel to be a stud dog!

      1. Margaret says:

        Our vet told us about a St. Lous rescue who was at one of his kennel clients.
        They were buying bred dogs. Pomeranians. $800 each. He went to fill out health papers. He asked them what was going on and they became very nervous. Hmmmmm

  87. Margaret says:

    HSUS and their pals are now our new homeland terrorists. People are finally waking up to their motives and the tactics that they will use to win. They will illegally enter property and steal animals for their cause. Their day is coming and Missouri is the current battle ground. The bad press is out there on them.

  88. Clayton says:

    Isn’t agriculture kind of one of the leading industries in Missouri? Do you actually think that the people in agriculture aren’t going to have some kind of say in the way that they do business? Agriculture is by far not the poor stupid cousin that city folks like to label them as.

  89. Harold says:

    Met with our legislator and they are very unhappy with HSUS.
    They view them as a threat to agriculture and to Missouri.

  90. Charlotte says:

    Just read this thread all the way through.
    Oh my!
    Shelley and Terry must be the two most illiterate humans on the planet earth.
    They think that we use water bowls and feed bowls? How insane is that. That is proof enough for me that they have never been in a kennel.
    These two must still be living in the 70’s. My husband and I just had the best laugh reading this.Thanks guys!

  91. Melody says:

    Based on what I just read I have to wonder if Terry and Shelley even own an animal? Could we see their home and inspect how they operate? Is their home clean enough? Will I find a speck in their dog’s water bowl. Perhaps they would like to have their animals taken away and face a fine. Yes, let’s get out the old magnifying glass and check them out. Perhaps Shelley will lend us her magnifying glass.

  92. ColeDVM says:

    My kennel clients have feeders not bowls. They also use nipple waters.
    We do a rotation of dentals each quarter and most of my clients groom a minimum of 3x yearly. I do routine kennel visits to do health inspections on puppies for sale and we also address any adult concerns. The public was lied to and that is a fact. I’ve been corresponding with several of our legislators. The veterinary profession is working with the legislature to stop this nonsense.

  93. Tom Grady says:

    Prob B goes after ALL breeders that do not meet the minimum standards set forth in the legislation. The legislation will indeed help shut down puppy mills because puppy mills do not meet the standards.
    The standards are indeed reasonable – including time outside of the cages, larger cage sizes, etc…
    Here’s the key point: Would ANY quality breeder tell a puppy-buyer to keep their new pet 24/7 in a cage, offer it very little vet care and never let it outside? – NO.
    The minimum standards set forth in Prop B are reasonable when we consider the health and well-being of the dogs. Animals should not be caged 24/7 and certainly should not be housed in cages smaller than the minimum set in Prop B.
    There are physical and emotional concerns with this sort of confinement.
    I have personally visited breeders where the care and housing exceeds the standards of Prop B, where the breeding dogs ran up to me in a large play yard – happy and healthy and able to be more than breeding machines.
    When I read that people are speaking out against regulations that offer larger cage sizes and time outside and regular vet care, it is troubling.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Your key point holds no water here. Professional breeders already get vet care (by current law) for their dogs AS NEEDED, not as dictated by HSUS/Prop B. Never let dogs outside? You are clueless. Modern kenneld have outside runs, as well as inside areas. Heated/cooled, ventilated, sanitary……all in current regulations.
      Understand, Prop B was created by HSUS to intentionally put good dog breeders out of business. Unless you are paid by HSUS, you are confused about current kenneling. We are not the backward, uneducated, illeterate dummies you seem to think we are. We actually understand animal husbandry, have intelligent veterinarians to help (as needed), use the latest technology in our kennels, and most of all, we LOVE our dogs! We take excellent care of them! Unhappy or unhealthy dogs do not reproduce successfully.

      1. Shelley says:

        Your statements are not accurate.

        Dogs do not have to be seen by a vet under current laws. The only requirement is that a vet must visit the breeder once a year.

        Some modern kennels may have outside runs and indoor heated and cooled areas, but neither is mandated under current law.

        Proposition B was not created to put good breeders out of business, only bad ones.

        You can love your dogs when you have 500 of them. Then they’re not dogs…their products.

  94. Vincent says:

    Tom, does your dog have unfettered access to the outdoors today?
    Would you like for me to tell you how many dogs you can own?
    This legislation does nothing to curb illegal unlicensed kennels.
    Have you ever raised puppies on cement? Do you know what wet cement does to create skin issues? Prop B only mandates a once a day cleaning. Would you allow a baby to walk around in a dirty diaper all day with only once changing in a 24 hr period. Kennel dogs are not bred to be household pets just as cows are not bred to live in someone’s house. We do use a veterinarian who comes to our kennel weekly to do puppy wellness exams and also to address any adult health issue. We do dentals and we shear regularly. We employ a staff to work and make sure that they have the best of care. Making me get rid of my excess dogs will financially break me and cost 6 people their employment. I don’t have to tell people to keep their dogs confined in crates because they do that all on their own while they go off to work. I sold a German Shorthair to a buyer and the pup developed some lameness issues. We found out that she was keeping the pup crated for up to 12 hrs a day. You people have slandered alot of honest people who do a great job at raising dogs. There are alot of hypocrits out there that voted for Prop B.

    1. Shelley says:

      Anyone with a fenced yard and dog door is allowing unfettered access to the outdoors for their dogs. This isn’t unusual.

      Solid surfaces prevent paw and leg injuries.

      Kennel dogs are dogs. Unless you’re saying that the kennel puppies aren’t being bred to be pets, either. Is this what you’re saying?

      I find it unlikely you have 6 full-time employees. But since you don’t identify yourself, we have no idea.

      There are a lot of hypocrites who voted against Proposition B.

      1. EDWARD C says:

        This woman is absolutely clueless. Do not give her your info, get hers. She says she has our names and addresses through government records. She is the one who needs to give us hers. This is typical of HSUS agenda. They know kill, kill, kill, and no more domestic animals born. The people who have intact animals in their homes, will be next on their list. When they come after yours, the truth is going to hit you in the face. All to be spayed and neutered, so extinction has taken place. Their goals will be accomplished. Get educated and investigate HSUS’s real agenda.

  95. Lisa says:

    Tom would like for our puppies to go outside on a day like today and suffer frostbite I suppose? A piece of food found in a water bowl would be a misdemeanor offense. The people that wrote this did it with the intention to end our industry and everyone knows it. Alot of people who voted yes are starting to wake up. Could the individual pet owners live up to the mandates in Prop B?
    What if we walk into your homes and investigate you?

    1. Shelley says:

      How many commercial breeders in the state have outdoor kennels only? How about those dogs, Lisa? Or doesn’t that count?

      Commercial breeding operations are not “homes”. They are commercial businesses.

  96. Mary says:

    Our inspectors told us the other day that they have to now write us up regardless if there is anything wrong. We have a new facility. The inspector walked through and couldn’t come up with anything. So to make it look good, he told me to take 3 dogs to the vet. Why? I asked. I have to put something down so you’ll have to take them in to your vet. My vet could find nothing wrong with the dogs. I have 110 dogs. Getting rid of 60 dogs will put me out of business. I bought sundowner kennels and there is no way for me to use these buildings to meet the mandates. My banker is holding the notes on these buildings. This is so unfair. Our neighbor has talked to a lawyer about filing a class action lawsuit against prop B.

    1. Shelley says:

      Proposition B doesn’t into effect until November.

      There are many breeders in Missouri who make a living and have less than 50 dogs. Perhaps you can get advice from them on what you need to do to improve your operation.

      Go for it: file a lawsuit. They tried in Pennsylvania, and on most counts, it failed. The only count that was successful was the additional fee on out of state kennel owners. Doesn’t apply to Prop B.

      1. annette says:

        Can you introduce us to a breeder that makes a living solely from 50 dogs? BTW your arrogance is both off-putting and laughable.

  97. Tom Grady says:

    We all know that no one is really suggesting that “unfettered” should mean the dogs or puppies stay outside in extreme conditions. The point of the legislation is to protect dogs, not put them in another bad situation.
    Do I think this was a poor choice of words? Yes. That clause could have been cleaned up with better wording. It could be changed to a particular time frame each day for exercise outside – when conditions allow.
    Again, the point is – dogs should not be caged 24/7 or even 20/7. Vincent correctly noted this.
    My dogs go out quite often each day, they sleep in our beds and on the furniture and get the best health care.
    But again, no quality breeder would ever suggest to a customer that they house their new puppy with standards less than those in Prop B.
    I’m yet to see anyone defend this practice of caging animals in this way. We must understand the physical and emotional harm this inflicts on the dogs.

    1. Shelley says:

      The wording is fine. Proposition B states unfettered access to both an outdoor run AND an indoor kennel area. This means that dogs come in when it’s cold.

      And outdoor exercise plans have failed, because people say that the dog was outside in the morning when they were not. But the inspectors can’t verify whether the exercise happened.

      This is specifically why this wording was put into Proposition B.

      1. annette says:

        Our adept inspectors can tell if animals are abused by looking at them. The condition and behavior of the kennel dogs are a give away to the health of an animal and the healthy practices of the kennel. The emphasis should be on the actual health of the dogs, not on specs for kennels that even responsible breeders can’t meet. Prop B can’t ensure the health of dogs, but responsible breeders and state inspectors can.

  98. Mary says:

    No Tom you don’t get it. That is the exact language of prop B and it will be used to shut us down. Every mandate in that proposition was carefully crafted to stop our kennels. They want to end all purebred dog breeding, This is their agenda. Yes we are hoping that the legislators will either repeal or change it. I have not had a dog be “emotionally or physically” harmed in my kennel. You cannot lump everyone into the quilty as charged category. One kid acts up in class so you would punish the whole class? Do the math on the inside space requirement for 5 tea cup yorkies and get back to us.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      60 square feet is just insane for those 5 tiny Yorkies! Ten by six! or twelve by five! Then 120 square feet outside! If you have your allowed 50 dogs, you need 600 square feet inside. Totally ridiculous!! 1200 square feet outside? Unbelievable! 1800 square feet for 50 tiny Yorkies!
      If we didn’t already know that the HSUS wrote this up to put us out of business, it would be laughable! Dogs love the feel of a ‘den’ to sleep in. With that much space, they will also become confused and use the inside floor for a bathroom. There are reasons for modern kennel designs. They are for the health, welfare, comfort, and happiness or the dogs! Prop B would set the dog industry back 30 years!

    2. Shelley says:

      Your statements are both inaccurate, and borderline on hyperbole.

      If anyone wanted to shut down commercial dog breeders, they would have mandated a whole lot fewer dogs than 50.

      Since you don’t identify your kennel or provide inspection records, we can’t verify your statement.

  99. Sheila says:

    The standards of care for puppies in Prop B is less than what is currently mandated in our rule book of over 20 pages. They changed the temperature range that will endanger newborn puppies. Whoever did this evidently has no experience in raising puppies.

  100. ptbamdb says:

    Prop B not only suggests that dogs be allowed out ANYTIME they want (including snow storms!), but DEMANDS it. We are not allowed to protect our own dogs from extreme weather. HSUS refuses to change ANYTHING in the bill. Tell me again who ‘is not really suggesting’ what unfettered means.
    Do you really believe that our dogs are in tiny cages for their whole lives?
    Quoting Tom: “My dogs go out quite often each day, they sleep in our beds and on the furniture and get the best health care.” You know, my dogs have EXACTLY the same treatment EXCEPT they get their OWN beds and ‘furniture’. They have toys and other dogs to play with also. Happy dogs make happy puppies!

  101. Clint says:

    I hope Tom and all those folks in St. Louis and K.C. realize that we are going to have to raise our prices. Grab your ankles folks. Those superior puppies will come with superior price tags.

  102. Marie says:

    Yep, our brokers said before this is over that you won’t be able to find a puppy for less than $1,000 and that means mixed breeds as well. The new buyers will also be required to sign a contract. Our veterinarian in K.C. said their fees are going to take a major increase. Prop B has now equated humans and dogs and she said she feels that she should make just as much as a human doctor.

  103. Abby says:

    I have all these people who want me to teach them how to care for the puppies that they buy from me. They will call me all the time wanting me to walk them through it. My husband and I are going to start charging for this service. I’ve encouraged other breeders to do the same and they also think it is a great idea. Our experience and time is worth something. Why should we spend our valuable time training people for nothing?

  104. Evan says:

    Our local breeders club has decided to never send any of our puppies to St. Louis or K.C. again. Our broker is taking them out of state.

    1. Shelley says:

      Which club is that? After all, your statement would mean so much more if it was actually verifiable.

  105. ptbamdb says:

    I only sell to people with enough intelligence or common sense to know how take care of a new pupy without having HSUS tell them. I will not sell to anyone who voted yes on Prop B or any HSUS member!

  106. Larry says:

    We have several families and businesses that are boycotting the St. Louis Cardinals and Tony Larussa. I know businesses that used to buy ads to support the radio broadcasts and they are pulling out.

  107. Tom Grady says:

    My primary concern is for dogs that are being housed in cages 24/7 or nearly 24/7. The dogs should have time outside to play and interact.
    We all know that extreme weather conditions will dictate when this time outside occurs.
    All veterinarians should understand the impacts on dogs housed in small cages 24/7.
    From what a couple of you have written, it sounds like you are giving your dogs access to play and access to the outside and offer regular vet care.
    Prob B will target those who are not following these guidelines.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      This ‘we all know’ BS doesn’t fly with inspectors who have to go by the written regulations. If we do not allow our dogs unfettered access outside when the weather is 10 degrees and the inspector comes, you better believe he will write it up! Common sense is not allowed once the rules are in place!!

  108. Larry says:

    Unfettered means that I have to allow my tea cup yorkies access outside 24/7.
    My dogs do not know how to use a door. They cannot go out in this kind of weather and survive. You cannot raise dogs on a one size fits all standard.

  109. Marie says:

    When you put dogs on a ground level you expose them to external parasites. Do you know the kind of flea problems we will have? There are no products labeled for newborn puppies. Also you expose them to racoons and opposums that come onto the property. These carry disease.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      This is a MAJOR concern to the health and welfare of our dogs!! Who wants to poison their dogs with flea and tick meds, more wormers, etc.? Current housing protects the dogs from parasites and diseases contracted by constant contact with the ground.

  110. Marie says:

    Our veterinarian said that based on his calculations that he would be mandated to do a physical exam on all kennel adults yearly. Based on the number of kennels that he has that would be nearly 5,000 dogs.

  111. Venice says:

    The only breeders being hurt by this are the good ones, the unlicensed bad breeders (puppy mills) will still be…Instead of this Prop B, there should have been stricter laws & fines passed to stop the unlicensed. Now thanks to this new bill, The good breeders will have to TRY to find homes for virtually thousands of dogs, THAT is not going to happen. Instead there will be piles of euthanized dogs, NOT a result anyone wants but THE REALITY! So to all of you that voted FOR it, NICE JOB!!!

  112. WillDVM says:

    Around 200 dogs have been placed in our dumpster since the election.

  113. CatherineDVM says:

    I’ve lost 9 of my kennel clients and by the end of the year there will be more. I anticipate letting 3 of my staff go and also our part time high school students.
    We also provide low cost shelter services and we will be doing away with the program.

    1. Shelley says:

      Unless you provide verifiable information such as the name of your clinic, and the low cost shelter services, as well as the clients you’ve lost, we can’t judge the veracity of your statement.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Gee, Shelley, why are you always demanding proof of everything? Some people obviously tell the truth and are just believed. You are obviously just used to all the animal rights activists (HSUS, et al) being LIARS. When you associate with those liars, you just can’t recognize the truth, can you?

  114. Tom Grady says:

    Once the puppy mill operations are gone, there will be more demand and more business for the good breeders.
    It’s supply and demand. I always suggest adoption first, but clearly there are many, many people who still buy puppies and these people will continue to be customers for breeders when the puppy mills are (hopefully) gone.
    This will actually be good news for good breeders.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      I am not sure how to respond to Tom. I have my suspicions that he is blind, deaf, and incredibly ignorant, or an HSUS puppet, or just had a massive brain fart! Prop B doesn’t even address illegal kennels aka puppymills. Instead, it calls the good licensed breeders puppymills and legislates changes clearly intended to put them out of business!!

      1. Tom Grady says:

        Actually, Prop B sets standards – without regard to breeders being licensed or unlicensed.
        If an unlicensed kennel is uncovered, it will be held to the same standards of care – but should also be shut down for being unlicensed.
        Better housing, access to time outside, ensuring regular veterinary care … the dogs need this. And again, these are standards of care we’d want for the puppies sold by breeders – at least.
        And I am not a member of the HSUS or any group. And can’t we have a discussion without the name-calling?

        And again, there will continue to be a large demand for puppies. If we can shut down the puppy mills and leave breeding to the good breeders, that’s only a good thing.
        It’s one case where market forces and compassion can work hand in hand.

      2. Shelley says:

        So much for the honeymoon, Tom. Welcome to the real nature of the anti-proposition B folks. If you don’t immediately come over to their side, they start insulting you.

        We’re thinking of forming a club.

      3. annette says:

        Tom, do you hear the good breeders telling you that very few good breeders can comply with the more ridiculous aspects of the bill? Almost every existent kennel will be put out of business for noncompliance, as most breeders can’t afford to rebuild. Ridiculous to put in massive amounts of concrete to raise the dogs on solid ground. There is no way to remove the waste fast enough and puppies/young dogs/old dogs will be tracking excrement 24/7. You could mop twice, three times a day and there will be more almost immediately. Disease will inevitably follow.

    2. Venice says:

      Keep Dreaming, the unlicensed puppy mills will remain. The only people this is hurting is the good breeders…NICE TRY tho…THINK of all those dogs that WILL end up euthenized, HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP WELL AT NITE. Cause it is people like you that caused it…

      1. Shelley says:

        Unlikely, since there have been at least three “rescues” of dogs that have been voluntarily surrendered by breeders downsizing in preparation for Proposition B.

        These rescued dogs now have a chance for a good life. Unless you can provide evidence, your statement is suspect.

    3. CatherineDVM says:

      Such a fantasy.

    4. Shelley says:

      A very good point.

      More importantly, the good breeders in Missouri will no longer have to put up disclaimers at their web site, assuring people that they aren’t a puppy mill. Nor be embarrassed when they tell others what they do for a living.

  115. ptbamdb says:

    PROP B ONLY AFFECTS LICENSED BREEDERS! It is NOT a stand-alone bill. It is a modification to current law, you know, the law the bad breeders are NOT following? Illegals will be shut down by current law, simply because they are operating ILLEGALLY. Prop B makes ZERO difference to that. Prop B ONLY impacts the good licensed breeders. Tom Grady, can you not understand the concept of law? Or the English language?

  116. Tom Grady says:

    All you have to do is show me in the text of Prob B where it states it ONLY APPLIES to licensed breeders.

  117. Tom Grady says:

    And actually it does apply to both licensed and unlicensed breeders that do not meet the minimum standards. The standards for housing and access to outdoor areas are certainly improvements to the current law – and would apply to ALL BREEDERS.
    One of the key areas of concern is to free the dogs from being caged 24/7. This measure will give law enforcement and inspectors better tools for freeing these dogs from inhumane conditions.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      You keep repeating the same ignorant statements when it has been explained to you reasonably why it is not true. You and Shelley are two of a kind. So fixated on your ‘mission’ and your mind is so closed that you can’t hear the truth.
      PS: The inhumane conditions are in your mind, not in our legal, licensed kennels.

  118. Venice says:

    Shelley, your ignorance is funny. YOU really believe every dog is going to go to a loving home? That every dog that this affects is going to be rescued? WOW you really need to wake up. A select few will be saved but the majority will be euthenized. It amazes me you have a comment to EVERYTHING, everybody posts. The fact that you think you are so smart & knowledgable is laughable!!! LOL. Keep living in your little fairytail world, if thats what works for you.

    1. Shelley says:

      Choosing between a rescue or the large scale commercial breeders? Hands down, the rescues win out.

      The rescues care about the dogs, the large scale breeders, the dog factory farms, just care about minimizing costs, maximizing profits. Dogs are products.

      Oh, and give my best to HumaneWatch.

      1. Venice says:


  119. Shelley says:

    ptbamdb, and have you ever noticed how no one does provide anything to substantiate the wild claims?

    I know that you would rather people just blindly believe you, but frankly, folks in this thread have accused the HSUS of being a terrorist, me of being paid by HSUS, that Prop B is out to close all breeders, that the new laws aren’t as good, that there are dumpsters of dead dogs…there’s nothing to believe in anything any of you are saying.

    But a simple thing to do is provide something we, the readers, can verify. Prove the wilder claims, the outrageous statements.

    1. JimFosterDVM says:

      I can provide a live KMOX radio show recording of Barbara Schmitz telling 2 major lies about me on air to discredit me. Is that the kind of something you would like to discuss?

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Shelley claimed it was a ‘little mistake’ on another site when we had a discussion about it. LOL!!

      2. ptbamdb says:

        I sincerely hope you are suing her!! That was such an outrageous attempt at character assassination. So typical of HSUS who think they can get by with anything with no consequences.

      3. Shelley says:

        It was a mistake. More importantly, Jim Foster, it wasn’t important.

        The election was not won or lost because of that interview which wasn’t heard by all that many people.

      4. Shelley says:

        Your lawyer — oh give me a break.

        So go for it Jim Foster. The interview was months ago. Where’s the lawsuit.

        And I don’t care, Jim Foster. I just don’t care.

      5. ptbamdb says:

        Shelley, you are hilarious! You just don’t care? LOL. HSUS representative makes an ugly accusation on public radio during a Prop B debate and it is just brushed off? Oh, that is funny! Barbara Schmitz will never forget her ‘mistake’; we won’t let her. She is a proven LIAR! You are ridiculous for defending her! I guess anything pro-Prop B liars say or do is just peachy with you? Lie all you want as long as you are for Prop B? Shelley, Shelley, you should have asked Barbara to PROVE IT, before she opened her big lying mouth!

    2. Venice says:

      YOU need to TRY using common sense. Think with your head and not your heart.

      1. JimFosterDVM says:

        My lawyer doesn’t think it is a tiny mistake. “REGARDLESS”
        I’ve never seen the reaction on anyones face when the are “served” litigation papers.

  120. DonnaDVM says:

    Oh really. I did low cost spay/neuter for a client who was sending dogs to a rescue. A lady ended up and shortly after called my client. She wanted some history. In the conversation, my client learned that the lady had been charged $500 for the little 7 yr old yorkie that had been neutered. The rescue told her that was to cover their expenses for the surgery and vaccinations etc…. They were caught red handed. Now let us talk about the “rescue” that ended up being and old tin barn with cattle panels. We found out that it was a no kill and that the people were hoarders. My associates and I have talked to other colleagues and we feel it is time for us to take action in regards to the states rescues and shelters. Perhaps we need to man our cameras?

    1. Shelley says:

      And the name of your clinic? And the name of the rescue?

  121. Shawn says:

    Shelley sure got quiet. She must have gone out for a veggie burger. Wonder if she left her pooch in a designer crate?

    1. ptbamdb says:

      I think Shelley choked on that veggie burger!

  122. Rhett says:

    Prop B will be another failure like the horse slaughter ban. How many horses have died in the name of HSUS due to starvation? They are gearing up to start the plants back up again. Went to a meeting and several in congress now realize it was a huge mistake.

    1. Venice says:

      Totally Agree! ( I have horses)

  123. Venice says:

    People like Shelley dont see the whole picture in their fairytail worlds. They think they are fixing a problem when in fact they have just created a bigger one. $500 for a rescue? (I believe someone is in it for the money!) I got my little 5 year old Yorkie rescue FREE, & it cost $59 to neuter him & get his rabies shot. I bet that little Yorkie ate the other $441 in dogfood!!! LOL

  124. Gordon says:

    I agree! Dr. Foster should nail Barbara Schmitz in a court of law. How many witnesses does he need? I heard it!!!

  125. Sutherland says:

    Actually, the debate with Dr. Foster did have a major impact in the election. I know that alot of people through out the state heard that debate as the link was mass emailed by us and we received an overwhelming response from people who had changed their votes after hearing it. They were left in disbelief that Barbara Schmitz would attempt such a stunt.

  126. Sutherland says:

    I also know that several legislators were sent copies of the debates.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      May want to send it out again to more legislators as a reminder of what was done to pass Prop B. All the HSUS lies and deceptions.

  127. Sutherland says:

    Inside source says Wayne isn’t helping their cause.

  128. Happiness says:

    I own several pet stores and purchase Missouri puppies. Our representatives visit potential kennels prior to ever entering a business agreement. We have 22 kennels that we currently buy from and I am appauled that they are being put into this situation. Our clients represent the best in the industry and some have attained “blue ribbon” status. We have relationships with their veterinarians and the puppies are health checked before they cross state lines. If we see a problem on this end, the pup is sent back with that seller.

    1. Shelley says:

      And the name of your pet stores is…? I

    2. Shelley says:

      In addition, isn’t it true that pet stores usually don’t buy directly from kennels, but mostly use puppy brokers?

      And that pet stores won’t willingly identify the kennel that bred the puppies? Or where the puppy came from?

      Or do more than offer a puppy exchange if the puppy gets sick or needs medical care, like the puppy is a toaster oven?

      1. Penny says:

        I sell my puppies directly to the owner of the pet store.
        I live near the Missouri/Iowa line and drive them myself.
        I do not sell to brokers and my puppies do not travel by truck or airplane.
        You are totally misinformed or have elected not to do your research.
        My veterinarian checks my puppies before travel and I am given an official Mo. State Health insp certificate. The puppies have registration certificates with them to transfer to the new owners. If there is a problem , they should have no problem finding me. This statement by you shows that you now very little about or industry.

      2. ptbamdb says:

        Isn’t it true that animal activists, HSUS fundraise using homeless dogs and cats, yet do not own even one shelter, and that the donations go to huge salaries/pensions for the execs, to more fundraising, to legislate animal producers of all kinds out of business, to promote veganism to the world, etc.?
        Less than one percent of your nineteen dollars per month go to hands-on animal care?
        That HSUS is a factory fundraiser?
        That HSUS is a factory lobbying machine?
        That HSUS is a factory lying machine?
        And that “their [HSUS] continued repetition is based on a belief that if one says something loudly enough, often enough, and using the CAPS KEY, it becomes somehow true.
        Or perhaps more to the point, it convinces enough people so it doesn’t matter if it is true or not.”?

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Just add Pet Stores to the list of things you know nothing about, Shelley. You really should get out more.

  129. Feldman says:

    Our firm was in the middle of an investment deal with a group outside of Missouri. They were interested in purchasing our manufacturing facility. They pulled out of the deal when they heard about Prop B. Limited ownership they said was hostile to business and they could not risk coming to this kind of business environment. They would have brought 300 plus jobs to Missouri and also a possible expansion of another business that they own.

    1. Shelley says:

      And the name of your firm is?

  130. Shelley says:

    I just want to remind new readers that many of the statements made in this thread cannot be verified. The reader should assume the comment is deliberate misinformation unless the person willingly identifies him or herself, or provides corroborating information.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Nice of you to warn us about yourself and your deliberate misinformation, Shelley, but we already welll know that you are pretty confused, have never seen a real-live licensed kennel, and that you are so close-minded and focused on your agenda that you cannot see the truth.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Oh, and that you defend outrageous liars like Barbara Schmitz.

      2. Shelley says:

        Oh but I have no problems providing verifiable information about any statements I make.

        People can also check out a web site I’ve started on Prop B.

        Still waiting your response to the earlier question: where in Proposition B is the statement that the regulations don’t apply to illegal breeders?

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Surely you are not that ignorant to believe Prop B can regulate breeders who refuse to be regulated by current rules. I have answered that before and you still don’t get it. Guess you don’t understand law either. Like I said, you are just too blinded by your agenda that you can’t see anything but what you believe.

  131. COMOLAW says:

    New readers should be aware that Terry and her gal pal Shelley/Barb are HSUS drones who appear on all comment sections of all articles pertaining to any animal activist propaganda. Their sole job is to shoot down the truth with their lies. Their leader is a liar and was publicly exposed before thousands. We will be glad to “verify’ that to anyone who asks.

    1. Shelley says:

      Sorry, your comment just doesn’t fly. I provided a link earlier to a guest column I wrote that has my bio, and in the bio I make a statement that I am not employed or in any way affiliated with HSUS, PETA, or any animal welfare.rights organization. I make no money for wasti…spending time answering your comments.

      Can we say the same about you, Comolaw?

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Gee, how are you going to prove you are not employed by HSUS?

  132. Joseph says:

    The issue that is mind blowing in this topic is that they exempted themselves from prop B. No shelters or rescues are covered. How many awful places have I walked into and wondered why is this being allowed?

    1. Shelley says:

      Because Missouri is not known as the bad shelter capital of the US?

      Because Missouri is not known as the bad rescue capital of the US?

      Because Missouri IS known as the puppy mill capital of the US?

      Exactly what part of this is hard for you to understand?

      This is the Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act. Puppy Mill. ie people who sell puppies.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        I have to remind you that rescues and shelters also SELL puppies. They even BUY PREGNANT dogs so they can SELL the puppies after they are born. One in Stl Louis comes to mind that SELLS lots of puppies regularly. I think they should definitely be covered by whatever the breeders are covered by.

  133. Petricelli says:

    We met with several legislators and we pointed that out to them and they agreed that it was not fair in the least bit.
    We also had written proof and a statement from our veterinarian about a shelter and rescue who were caught selling dogs for high dollar amounts. They are looking at this also.

    1. Shelley says:

      And the name of the legislators? And the name of the rescue? And anything, one tiny little fact–one itsy bitsy piece of data we can verify on this?

  134. Shelley says:

    Penny, I am aware that puppies have identification that follows them to the store. That’s how PetShopPuppies is able to backtrack from pet store to broker to commercial breeder.

    However, pet stores are rarely willing to identify the name of the original breeder, which isn’t as easy for the buyer to determine.

    So what’s the name of the pet store you sell to?

  135. AndersonDVM says:

    I recently turned in a no kill shelter to the state. It is located in Raytown.
    Halfway Home is the name.
    Horrible conditions. My staff went anonymously and counted over 100 dogs.
    We had a tip that fewer than 15 had been walked in a one week period. How does this work?

    1. Shelley says:

      Halfway Home is not a no kill shelter.

      Halfway Home is a municipal shelter contracted by Kansas City and mandated by law to take every stray, abandoned, or owner surrender dog.

      Every month the organization takes in between 650 and 700 dogs.

      If you were really a vet, you would know this.

      1. Shera says:

        The reason that they are a mess is because no one will make the decision to euthanize. Therefore it is a no kill. Why do you think Way Side had to recently step in to the situation and take dogs out. I was there Shelley. Halfway Home does not have enough support or volunteers and is a disaster.

  136. Shelley says:

    Because I am only one of four people willing to identify myself in this entire thread.

    Are you willing to identify who you are ptmabdb? Are you willing to answer the question posed earlier?

    Where in the Proposition B text does it say it doesn’t cover illegal breeders?

    I mean, a simple thing to provide, and it doesn’t even require you to give up your anonymity.

    No more exchanges with you until you answer this one simple question.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      My reward!! Not having any more exchanges with Shelley! You think I would answer that question (even tho I have answered it several times already…just not the answer Shelley wanted) now that you have promised no more exchanges? Not on you life!

    2. annette says:

      The teeth of Prob B can’t bite unlicensed breeders. They will double their numbers when most of the licensed kennels are shut down. They probably voted for Prop B. They will certainly benefit from it.

  137. Morrison says:

    I don’t think people are willing to give out information to terrorist groups like the ones you represent. You put on your little caps and mini cams and go out to places so that you can edit in what you want to ruin someone’s business. We know how it works. Just ask those folks in St. Charles who got themselves in a jam when they were caught with their cameras. We know how you like to cut farm fences to let out livestock.

    1. Shelley says:

      Oh, so Morrison, you’re now accusing me of being a terrorist? Now that is liable–do you have proof of your statement?

      Are you willing to put your name to your accusation? Will you stand by it in court?

      1. ptbamdb says:

        LOL, threaten away, Shelley! Personally, I believe you are just an internet terrorist. Don’t think you would actually get your hands dirty, but just admire the ones who do. It’s not libel when it is true. Don’t respond……remember your promise….

      2. annette says:

        Shelley has stated that she/and or her fellow activists go to people’s kennels and try to get in, but if they can’t, they park in the road and take pictures with long lenses. This would scare breeders I would think. Possibly even terrorize them. And the breeder’s terror creates such a healthy environment for dogs and puppies.

  138. Clevenger says:

    Shelley who?

  139. Allysa says:

    I am an ordained minister and our dogs are a part of our church family. I talked to our lawyer and she stated that the state will have a difficult time taking our dogs out of our church family. Religion you know. God gave us the animals the state of Missouri doesn’t have the ability to take what God gave to us.
    I have to wonder is Shelley an atheist? Be fruitful and multiply is the word of God!

    1. Shelley says:

      So, you often sell members of your church family?

      1. Allysa says:

        Its the parents not the puppies. The sales of the puppies help us in our mission work. You should reach out to Christ and let go of this anger that you harbor toward people. It is very obvious in your posts that you are very troubled. The fact that you are judging people goes against the word of God.

  140. Brundage says:

    Proposition B ? I live on the Kansas line. We own farms in Kansas and moved our Sundowners over to our son’s house. We’ll keep our big dogs over here and the folks with Prop B can scratch their heads and wonder what happened?
    Kansas will get out doggy dollars and not Missouri.

    1. Shelley says:

      I think that Missouri will survive.

  141. Mason says:

    I guess we weren’t the only ones. Our excess dogs went across the line to Illinois. Illinois needs our dollars worse than Missouri, evidently. It just goes to show you how stupid activists really are. They evidently don’t teach about prohibition in schools anymore. Oh well!

    1. Shelley says:

      I think Missouri will survive.

  142. Beverly says:

    When you try to take someone’s dog away from them, you become a terrorist in my book. My dogs are like my kids and I love them dearly. So Shelley let us make this clear and easy for you to understand. You are not going to make us get rid of our dogs. Plain and simple.

    1. Shelley says:

      No one is taking away your dogs: spay or neuter those dogs over the 50 allowed, and keep your beloved babies as pets.

  143. Beverly says:

    It isn’t going to happen! I am not employable due to my age and there are no jobs out there. I have one in college , 2 in high school and my youngest is in elementary. This is our lively hood Shelley. I will do what I have to do to protect my family and my dogs.

    1. Shelley says:

      Why is it that many commercial dog breeders can make a decent living with fewer than 50 dogs, but you can’t, Beverly?

      I suggest getting advice from the successful smaller breeders.

      1. Beverly says:

        My youngest child has cerebral palsy. Do you know what that means?
        Do you have children?

  144. Shelley says:

    Allysa, I find it humorous that you spent an entire comment judging me, and then ended it with “The fact that you are judging people goes against the word of God”

    So you often sell your church family babies?

  145. Venice says:

    To Shelley I am pretty sure I read way up that you were NOT going to comment anymore!!! What happened to that, I get on here and laugh because you are so ignorant…You obviously cant be taught anything, because you know it all…WHERES YOUR COLLEGE DIPLOMA??? ARE YOU EDUCATED? IT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE IT. LOL

    1. Shelley says:

      Anyone who uses LOL in a comment should be careful about making assertions about education.

      Actually, I’m commenting now because I want to encourage you all to continue. I’m writing a new article, and I plan on using this discussion for material.

      1. Venice says:

        FYI=For Your Information. LOL=Laugh Out Loud which I am sitting here doing!!! Apparently we have to spell things out for you…

  146. Mason says:

    Shelley’s comments get more insane by the minute. Pay for 125 spays and neuters. I wonder what sugar daddy is paying Shelley’s bills. She must be one of those trust fund kids.

    1. Shelley says:

      People do make a living other than stuffing dogs into tiny wire cages.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Where are those tiny wire cages???? I have never seen them!!!!!!! Legal licensed breeders use modern sanitary vet-recommended animal husbandry methods and housing. Oh, that’s right, You have never been to a licensed kennel. When you don’t know what you are talking about and just keep talking, it shows your ignorance. Shelley, you don’t need to continue to comment in this thread just to keep it going. We can carry on without your ignorant comments.

      2. Scott says:

        I don’t use wire. I use tender foot. Tender foot is superior to both wire and cement and everyone knows it.

  147. Judith says:

    It is pretty obvious to me that Shelley does not live in the real world and that she has no regard for people in general. She and her kind like to lump us all together and call us cruel and bad. She and her kind are far worse than any kennel owner in this state.

  148. Judith says:

    People like Shelley make a living by ruining the lives of others and striking terror wherever they can. They are the new predator in this country. They have tasted the power that all those millions in donations has given them.

    1. annette says:

      Exactly. They carve their very identities out of their ‘beliefs’ and the power they unfairly strum up. BTW Where are their photos of kennels who are in compliance with Prop B . . . I would like to see a kennel Prop B would smile at.

  149. Scott says:

    Yes, they take other peoples dogs and sell the for profit in the name of “rescue.”
    This is the new 21st century scam.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      You are so right, Scott. The rescue scam is really booming, not only in Missouri, but everywhere! Dog breeders need to wake up and take respojnsibility for their own dogs and quit giving them to rescue! The rescues will lie about the dogs (how they rescued them, barely alive, from horrible places), demonize the breeder, and laugh at the breeder (who thought the rescuer cared about the dogs) all the way to the bank with the big bucks!

  150. Scott says:

    Shelley has not a clue about 21st century kennels. Why? Because she doesn’t want to know. She and Wayne want to end all dog breeding. Why? because they want to use this cause as the first step to go after the farmers. Why? Because they are vegans!

    1. Shelley says:

      So, Scott, you eat a lot of dog? I have to assume you do since you’re making a leap between regulations for commercial dog breeding and people’s eating habits.

      (PS I am not a vegetarian)

  151. Scott says:

    What I do not understand is why are we being put into a category? I do not use wire. I do not use water bowls or feed bowls. My dogs have more room than what is required in the rule book but will not meet prop b mandates. I have a modern facility that is beyond the standard. The lowering of temperatures is dangerous. Why am I being compared to poor facilities? Why am I being punished for doing an excellent job?

    1. Shelley says:

      How many times have I, or Terry, or others been put into categories in this thread? How many times were we called terrorists?

      No one is putting you into any category, other than that associated with your business as a commercial dog breeder. What Proposition B does is provide new business regulations.

      Business owners rarely like new business regulations, but most do adapt. If we ask businesses of other kinds of industries to meet new business regulations, we can’t exempt dog breeding–not and make any other business regulation in this state vulnerable to court challenge.

      1. NancyPHD says:

        How many businesses in the state of Missouri are limited on how much product that they can sell? Is the Toyota dealer only allowed to sell 10 Toyota Tundra Pick Up Trucks each month?

  152. NancyPHD says:

    I’d like to see Shelley’s commercial kennel and to know where she earned her animal science degree.

    1. Shelley says:

      I also don’t run a restaurant, but support the anti-smoking regulations. I don’t have an oil well, but support oil well regulations. I imagine you have any number of opinions on businesses that you’re not involved with.

      But I’ll bite: how many animal science degrees do commercial dog breeders have?

  153. NancyPHD says:

    Once again she evades the questions. Notice she could not defend their own exemption of shelters and rescues. Why? We know why!

    1. Shelley says:

      I don’t believe I did, and I don’t believe that was the question you asked.


      Shelters, rescues, pet stores, and dog borderers (other organizations also licensed under ACFA) were not covered because the bill is the Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act– it is focused at preventing puppy mill cruelty.

      No, I don’t have an animal science degree. However, I’m not raising animals for sale as puppies. But then this raises the question in turn: do those who are commercial dog breeders typically have animal science degrees?

      1. NancyPHD says:

        Once again you evaded the question. What does it matter where cruelty exists? You stated yourself in a previous post the hundreds of dogs being taken in from “Halfway Home” shelter. Why are they exempt from the same requirements of a Missouri Licensed kennel? Why are they not held to the same mandates of prop. B?

      2. NancyPHD says:

        You tell me why it is okay to deem a kennel not capable of taking care of more than 50 dogs while a shelter can take in hundreds of dogs and not have enough volunteers to see to the needs of the dogs.

  154. Sandi says:

    You know, I have read every one of these comments. I know first hand how they (animal rights) work. CAPS organization snuck into my kennel on a Sunday morning and took pictures of it. They couldn’t find anything wrong, so they put some horible pictures of someone elses kennel on their web site, saying it was mine. Said I had 5 Sundowner kennels. The only Sundowner I have is a 4 horse, full living quarters horse trailer that I trail ride in. They said I had 350 dogs. I am state and federal licensed and have never had more than 80 dogs. (ALL matter of record.) Said I raised all kinds of dogs that I have NEVER raised. As soon as I talked SUEING Caps, it was taken off their web site.Breeders out there, watch You to might be on there. Had no idea they had come here. Catches you when you go to church. I really think you should quite fussing with the likes of Shelley, who is totally sico, and try to work to gther and get thei bill KILLED I am in Illinois and I know they tried to get us to 20 dogs. We are all on your side. The Shelleys of this world are not worth our time. There is more importent business then responding to NUTS. GO DR. FOSTER Sue the H— out of them. Even I heard the interview. We all have heard it. Nation wide

  155. Scott says:

    I not only have an animal science degree but also am a 3rd generation kennel owner who worked with our local vet from age 13 through the college years during summer breaks.

    1. Shelley says:

      Hmm, commercial dog breeding didn’t take off until after WWII, but I suppose that could be “three generations”.

      So, what’s the name of your kennel, Scott? It sounds like you’re proud of it, so share with the rest of us.

      1. NancyPHD says:

        She isn’t very good at math either. None of them could ever get that square footage issue right when confronted with it. Are we surprised?

      2. Venice says:

        WOW SHELLEY it must be so humbling to be so smart & knowledgeable that you can argue with Veterinarians, seasoned kennel owners & people with degrees in animal science. How can the rest of the world function without people like you??? Again I ask, DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE? WHAT DID YOU STUDY? DO YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DIPLOMA? WHAT makes you so smart that you have a comment for EVERYTHING everyone posts??? Come on we all would like to know!

  156. Corey says:

    Shelley likes to take away the rights of her fellow Americans. Hmmmmm
    Wonder how many abortion clinics she funds?

    1. Shelley says:

      Proposition B is about abortion clinics?

  157. Sandi says:

    And she lies. She has said a half dozen times that she woulld not respond anymore. What happened to that. I would not varify anything either, if it keeps her off the page. If yor aren’t living on the edge, you are taking up too much space. She must be right smack in the middle. LOL

    1. Shelley says:

      Half a dozen times?

      Actually, I decided to continue when I realized that there’s a wealth of material to mine in this thread.

      The only anti-proposition B person willing to identify himself is Jim Foster. Not one other of you is willing to give your full name. Not one of you is willing to answer questions. Not one of you is willing to provide any verification of your wild claims.

      None of you engaged in debate, and even the slightest hint of push back brought out the insults and vitriol.

      And none of you have had the sense to stop, read back through the thread, and think, for just a moment, how you sound to those not directly related to this discussion.

      1. Venice says:


  158. NancyPHD says:

    Shelley, how many businesses have a cap on how much property they can own in this state and how much product they can sell?

    1. Clay says:

      She must be calling Wayne to get more info.

  159. NancyPHD says:

    The things that people won’t tell you often tell us the most about them.
    I believe that our group has seen enough of Shelley.
    Thank you Shelley for your time.

  160. NancyPHD says:

    There are multiple language problems with this proposition. Whoever crafted it made major mistakes. One well written lawsuit will tie it up in court for years and I know that there is enough money out there to do it. Proposition B has waisted the time of Missouri voters and our government. Illegal true mills will continue regardless. I read down through this entire thread and there were a few that really tugged at my heart. Bev if you are reading my heart goes out to you. My neighbor has a child with CP so I know where you are at and yet I can’t even put myself in your shoes. The real slap in the face to me is that the bulk of kennel owners in this state are women. I believe a civil rights suit against this state could come into play. Women as income earners are being victimized and will be unfairly put into financial jeopardy. This doesn’t even mention what the impact will do to those children who are involved. Shelley and her kind are a disgrace to women and families.

    1. NancyPHD says:

      sorry meant to type “wasted”
      don’t want to test “Terry’s” superior intellect too much

  161. Bev says:

    Thank you Nancy
    My husband lost his job due to a plant shut down.
    Luckily he found a job but the pay is alot less.

  162. Sandi says:

    And as for the identifing yourself, unless I missed it and it is in very small print, YOU, Shelley, have never identified yourslf!!!!!! Is this just a one way street. Besides, they causion you all the time to be carefull on the internent. There are SICO’s out there……

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Shelley is one of those sicko Pychos, I think. She is absolutely rabid about her causes and will not even hear anything that does not support how she feels. She lives to rip you to shreds if you give her even the tiniest bit of ammunition or information, but will defend even the worst liars (like Barbara Schmitz and Wayne Pacelle) if they are on her side.

  163. Sandi says:

    And if I mispell, it is probably because I am from Illinois and not as educated as Shelley and Terry. Nancy, you go girl. And Bev, we all wish you the best. Hang in there. I truly believe that bill will get stopped somehow, or atleast held up in court for years. There are only a small percentage of people that believe as Shelly and Terry, when the truth is presented to them. People were only going on the lies they were told. There is a lot of truth being let about about the HSUS. Reps are seeing the light about thm. Things will start to change now. People are banning together and can now beat them at thier own game. Kennel breeders and others, everywhere, are up in arms. Not just in Missouri..

  164. NancyPHD says:

    Her unwillingness to answer my simple questions tells the story of her cause.
    They have turned it into a human hunt.

  165. O'Donnell says:

    Interesting thread.
    Several of my friends became active in that movement and they are moving away from it. They tried to get me into it and frankly while I am for welfare, I do not believe that animals have the same rights as humans. Seemed to me to be just a little too aggressive. I pointed out a few things and now my friends are saying I was correct. Whackadoo people involved in the movement and they said that they were gettin way too scarey for them to continue. They said that within the organization there were people that you could not reason with and that they were never open to new ideas or suggestions to the point of being treacherous.

  166. Chastai1 says:

    I agree. There is a dangerous group within the movement.

  167. Sandi says:

    Whch movement are you talking about?????

  168. Chastai1 says:

    The animal rights movement in general and the groups such as PETA, HSUS, ALF are all tied together. The are amassing large sums of money and our federal government is watching them.

  169. Sandi says:

    I was sure thatwas who yo ment, but just wanted to mke real sure. And you are absolutely right. CAPS (companion animals protective service) is in there too. They are really snakes. We must all stand together against these creeps. They are becoming dangerous.

  170. Sandi says:

    That is Companion Animal Protection Society Check it out and be on the lookout for them sneeking into your Kennel when you are not there. The USDA warned me bout them, but little did I know that they had already been there when I was gone on Sunday morning.

  171. Animal Advocate says:

    WE The People have spoken and Voted YES for Prop B. Period.

    The existing “laws” are weak at best. Even when inspected, a puppy miller would now be allowed to keep their dog in their small cage for 24 hours a day without ever letting them out – – that’s legal now. Prop B changes that and adds more laws to enforce. It’s necessary – is it perfect – no. I would have included much stricter legislation. And I’ve read every single word of it, it says nothing about Agriculture or Livestock. So to my “friends” in rural Missourah – please learn to read and think for yourself. If you care about animals at all – you would have voted YES on Prop B. And if my legislator and/or my senator vote to repeal this, I’ll Vote them out of office.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Again with those ‘small cages without ever letting them out’. Where do you people find those little cages? I know a lot of licensed breeders in Missouri and have never seen dogs crammed into tiny cages with pee and poop dropping down from above, never having exercise for their whole lives. BS HSUS AR idiotic rhetoric.

      1. Betty says:

        We use tenderfoot and have a waste containment system. There are no “stacked” dogs with urine and feces falling on them. It all goes to a lagoon.
        Our big dogs are also on tenderfoot. These idiots want us to rip it out and make our dogs lay on wet cement all day.

  172. Steven says:

    Good look with that Advocate and get ready to have your period.
    It is far from over.

  173. Steven says:

    “luck” we keep forgetting about smart Terry, oops

  174. Max says:

    Why don’t you folks go after Wayne? I hear he isn’t nice to gerbils.

  175. Luke says:

    Shelley/Barb wouldn’t like Animal Advocate because he/she is anonymous and doesn’t have the balls to identify themselves.

  176. SchmidtDVM says:

    Animal Advocate is another uninformed person. They do shut down kennels. I personally have been involved in the process but they didn’t want the public to know the real facts. That is why lies were told about Dr. Foster during that debate. They fear veterinarians. Why? Credibility

    1. Shelley says:

      When a kennel is shut down involuntarily, it is part of public record. If you were really a veterinarian you would know this.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        If you were really a person, Shelley, you would not insult a professional who has dedicated his life to animals. I think you are just a hater. Don’t really believe you even like animals. Whiney Wayne’s girlfriend perhaps? LOL. What a pair to draw to!!

  177. Caleb says:

    Animal Advocate shows fear in his/her comment. Such a statement sounds like they may be worried. Why else would they bother with little old folks like us?

  178. Linda says:

    That old grassroots fire is a blazin again. Lots of visits bein made both in Jeff City and out in public. Look at the color of that old Missouri election map. That baby tells the real story and they are talkin about it all over the country. People in rural Missouri have one thing in common. We never forget.

    1. Shelley says:

      I think you discount the love many people have for dogs. That’s something the state representatives had better not forget.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Don’t think our representatives take too kindly to being threatened. I know that mine sure wouldn’t!

  179. Linda says:

    You know it is amazing that these people think that we would just roll over and allow them to do this to us. That we would allow them to smear us and lie about us to the public and not react?

    1. Shelley says:

      I guess we expected that you would respect the vote.

      Well, not you…the elected officials of this state.

      1. Adam32 says:

        We don’t respect liars. We do not respect being put into a group and being punished. Our rights have been violated and we are being put into financial jeopardy. We are hearing the same comment come from not only state elected officials but also our local elected officials. Get ready! There is going to be a fight.

  180. Andrew says:

    I don’t think these people realize just how large an industry agriculture is in this state. But they will!

    1. Shelley says:

      Agriculture is the fourth largest industry in the state.

      And agricultural didn’t have enough influence to stop Proposition B from passing, did it?

      1. Sutherland says:

        Hmmmm you folks were shooting off your mouths that it would pass by 30% back in late October. Then Ms. Barb Schmitz told the whopper lies of the century and exposed all of you for the liars that you are. The grassroots effort of this state narrowed that down to a shocking few percentage points. The legislators told us going in that this is what needed to happen should it pass. We may be fourth in this state but our profession is #1 when you go to shovel food in your lying mouths. Don’t evey underestimate the power of rural America.

      2. Joan A says:

        yeah I highly suspect a HSUS plant within our own leadership.. That is how ag was kept in check until the last moment. Giving you folks the means to keep KC and St Louis and those 2 boothill counties. We almost got you..imagine if we were not muzzled..But,the muzzles off now baby,

  181. Betty says:

    We are forming a coop in our neighborhood. My dogs will be divided amongst neighbors. Hey if they are going to play dirty tactics with the lives of our children then they better be prepared for war.

    1. Shelley says:

      As long as each are licensed, and meet the new requirements for care, this sounds like an acceptable plan.

      Because you have to be licensed by the USDA to sell dogs to brokers or pet stores. You have to be licensed by the state if you have 3 or more intact dogs and breed them for puppies.

      And Proposition B is about your children…how?

      1. Marcie says:

        who harbors more than three (3) intact
        females for the primary purpose of breeding
        animals for sale. Persons engaged in breeding
        dogs and cats who harbor three (3) or less
        intact females shall be exempt from the
        license requirement;

        Directly out of the rules Shelley. You can’t even get it correct. Have you even seen the rules?

  182. Marcie says:

    All Missourians should stop giving to HSUS and do what Georgia is doing.

    1. Shelley says:

      And this has what to do with Proposition B, the topic of this article?

      1. Sutherland says:

        It encourages people to wake up and leave the con game that you folks are running. How many in non profit work draw the kind of money that Wayne Pacelle draws? People are waking up and they are stopping those monthly donations.

  183. Terry Ward says:

    OMG..The chimps are STILL bangin’ the bars of their cages..
    It MUST be feeding time by now..
    Has anyone seen any research on the correlation between animal abusers and murderers of the English language?

    1. Venice says:

      Is this the Terry I have heard so much about??? LMAO, you need to get a clue and a life. Tell me miss or is is mister? Educated…are you really as ignorant as your sidekick Shelley? Because it sure looks that way from your posts…& do I need to spell out what LMAO means or do you get it??? Your friend sure doesnt!

      1. Shelley says:

        I’ve been online since the early usenet days, Vincent. The use of LOL in a thread like this, discussing a very serious subject, with participants that disagree strongly, is not only not appropriate, it’s an indicator of ineptness with social media.

        Do I need to spell out what “ineptness” means?

        Now, do you have anything specific about Proposition B you want to say? Or are you just comment thread noise?

      2. Venice says:

        Oh Shelley you are back…See the thing is everyone including me has posted on the topic our opinions. But you dont seem to GET it…READ back through the thread, I should not have to repeat myself. & LOL is DIRECTED AT YOUR STUPIDITY not at Prop B and the problems it is going to cause. You are one of those unteachables….

      3. Sutherland says:

        Probably a Ms.

    2. Shelley says:

      What I can figure out, Terry, is even when I provide a link to an article with a bio including my full name, people still assume I a) work for HSUS, and/or b) and Barb Schmitz.

      1. ptbamdb says:

        LOL, it is just that no one really cares who you are anymore. They already know you are so radical and rabid about your support of such a nasty HSUS-funded bill as Prop B, that you are now being just brushed off as laughable for your ignorance (yep, unteachable) and for being an irritant….kinda like a pesky gnat that you can’t swat. Where’s the Raid?

    3. Joan A says:

      No, but we have seen correlation between Spelling police and real murderers 🙂
      Are you related to Jared Loughner by any chance? You guys sound alot alike.

  184. NancyPHD says:

    Shelley, why are shelters and rescues exempt?
    Why was the temperature range lowered putting newborn puppies at risk?
    You do realize that it is possible for a married couple to own 50 dogs per spouse. Each spouse and or member of a family can obtain a license and own 50 dogs. A veterinarian can prescribe tender foot flooring as a viable medical treatment when a dog has continual skin problems when being exposed to wet solid surfaces.

    1. Shelley says:

      They aren’t exempt, they’re just not relevant. The bill relates to people who breed dogs expressly for puppies. Shelters do no breed dogs.

      One kennel, one license, one limit.

      No, a veterinarian cannot prescribe tender foot. Tender foot was designed for hogs, not dogs.

      Kennels can use kennel decking if they don’t want to use cement. And a dog wouldn’t be on a wet solid surface if they had an area to go while the flooring is cleaned, which they do with the new Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act.

      1. Hanlon says:

        Relevant? You have people handling hundreds of dogs and it isn’t relevant? Get real Shelley! How many of these people are mere volunteers with zero animal husbandry experience. We know what some of these places charge for adoption fees.

      2. ptbamdb says:

        Shelters are mentioned specifically as ‘shall not apply to’ just the same as it mentions the dog breeder with 10 or less breeding dogs. Hmmm. I think Shelley has lost her mind. Or maybe she needs to look up the word ‘exempt’.

      3. Cooley says:

        Well excuse me for blowing your theory but you might want to do some further research on that statement. Our vet Dr. Sprouse caught a group from St. Louis buying bred pomeranians for $800 from a kennel. How does this work?

      4. SEMO says:

        The nitwits that wrote it require only once a day cleaning. That proved how ignorant and stupid they truly are. Tenderfoot is superior to cement. Why do you think the hog people use it? They have more brains than Shelley or Terry. This is the problem when you allow illiterate people who have zero animal husbandry skills open their mouths. Cement is also hard on joints and it sweats moisture in humid summer days. Can you say skin problems Shelley?

  185. Will says:

    I don’t think that it really matters. I know the money man that is going to toss the lawsuit at it. The 50 dog cap issue is what will kill the whole thing. Totally anti-American.

  186. Hanlon says:

    Just read through all this and had a nice chuckle.
    She made a snide remark about agriculture not having enough power to defeat B. She evidently has not a clue how it really works.
    Good luck with Prop B and trying to enforce it. What a joke.

  187. Cooley says:

    Shelley and Terry are worried. They wouldn’t waste their time on the comment sections if they weren’t. Wayne is also worried . How many trips to the legislators? If prop B was passed and such a great thing for Missouri, what is he worried about ? He didn’t get such a great reception in Nebraska. Hmmmmm

    1. Shelley says:

      Not worried, mad.

      Mad at the deliberate lies and deceit, most of it not even coming from people who give a darn, but are hired by HumaneWatch.

      At the same time, also glad–because the more you all talk, the worse you sound.

  188. Cooley says:

    I guess it is okay for hundreds of dogs to stand for days in cramped runs without being walked. This is what is going on at Halfway Home Shelter in Raytown. Talk about a bunch of hypocrits! Why would we be surprised? Their ring leader is a known liar and the whole bunch spreads lies about innocent people.

    1. Shelley says:

      You copied this information from a Facebook page, where volunteers at Halfway Home asked Wayside Waifs to put out the word that more volunteers were needed.

      You’ve and others from HumaneWatch have since taken this innocent plea for help and twisted it about to suit your needs. But then, this is what we’ve come to expect from an organization that is nothing more than a corporate front.

      And what does this have to do with the topic of this article?

      1. LarsonLegal says:

        To open up the eyes of the public that Prop B was written by hipocrits who can’t be held to their own candle. Halfway Home is an example of horrible management skills and an example of animal cruelty. You can put it out and lump innocent people into a category but you don’t want to be confronted by the fact that your own humane groups are even worse managers.

      2. Miranda says:

        Here you can follow the link. I don’t think you will have any problems verifying it.

      3. Ed says:

        Corporate front? Looks like Wayne isn’ working for minimum wage. Non-profit sure has come a long way with their pay scales. One wonders about what is spent out of that expense account. Is there an accountability to donors?

  189. SEMO says:

    Several veterinarians in the area are shutting HSUS investigators out. No more helping on their cases. They said they would handle the issues with their local enforcement people.

    1. Shelley says:

      I find your statement unlikely, but what does this have to do with the topic of this article: Proposition B and the state representatives’ actions?

      1. SEMO says:

        The point is that Prop B and a group of people have poisoned the atmosphere in this state and the good will that once existed is now tainted.

      2. Venice says:

        You Shelley find EVERYONES statements “unlikely”…LOL…Dont you find that a little odd??? Doesnt it tell you anything??? Oh Wait, I forgot who I was communicating with….unteachable…

  190. Shelley says:

    Joan A

    Are you aware that one statute of the existing dog regulations in Missouri instructs law officials to gather up any stray dog, hold them for a week,and then euthanize them?

    If it weren’t for the non-profit shelters, such as Stray Rescue, Wayside Waifs, HSMO, and others, many more dogs would die.

    Now, what is your point and what does it have to do with Proposition B or the state representative actions. Because I am tired of HumaneWatch controlling this discussion. They can go earn their pennies per comment somewhere else.

    1. Joan A says:

      Shelley..Since you believe we are all part of this humane watch… I am going to have to look this smart entity up.
      I would like to know where all these strays come from?? I never see dogs walking the streets anymore. Seriously being that all the non descriptive mixes are spayed and neutered. How are more coming about? Commercial kennels do not raise nondescript large breed mixes nor do any of them have pit bulls. There was a time one would see strays ..In these times if there is a loose dog. One is most likely to know the owner. finding a real stray dog is a rare sighting. Stray Cats are still an issue. But obviously they are not the issue here. I assume a person can have a million breeding cats of they want? I heard they are self ovulaters.

  191. Hill says:

    How many dogs were killed at Halfway Home recently? What is HSUS kill rate?
    Shelley, The Columbia Missouri Humane group nearly went under because no one would euthanize. How many directors walked away? Dr. Allert took over as interim and is trying to make it financially sound again after this fiasco

    1. Shelley says:

      HSUS does not run any dog shelters. They do have large animal shelters, and assist with some wildlife refuges.

      And unless Proposition B has text specific to HSUS, what does it have to do with the topic of this article?

      1. ptbamdb says:

        Oh, please! HSUS wrote Prop B. HSUS paid signature gatherers. HSUS spent over 4 million dollars promoting Prop B. The CEO of HSUS continues to plague our legislatures wtih his presence in the capital trying to keep Prop B alive. Prop B would not have happened without HSUS. Why do you continue to divorce HSUS from its rightful connection to Prop B?

      2. LarsonLegal says:

        They don’t want to be associated with Barb’s blunders. That whole “we don’t want to be associated with HSUS” started after Barb was caught lying on KMOX. Dead rotting cow in the humane waters?

      3. ptbamdb says:

        Well, maybe since Wayne Pacelle, HSUS CEO is now a registered lobbyist in Missouri and will be defending Prop B in person? Now you can shut up about HSUS having nothing to do with Prop B.

  192. Hill says:

    What is the difference between a licensed state inspected kennel dog living in a kennel when compared to living in a small run owned by a no-kill shelter?

    1. Shelley says:

      Actually, shelters are also inspected. Proposition B does not alter this.

      What does a shelter provide that’s better? Volunteers who walk the dogs, people who only care about the dogs, and hope. Hope for a better future with a forever home.

      1. Miranda says:

        volunteers who kill dogs without a veterinarian!!!! really cool Shelley!
        but this is typical because you folks know more than veterinarians

      2. Joan A says:

        Yeah and shelters can kill animals they dont sell fast enough.

  193. Shera says:

    You go on and on about how our kennels are not inspected and then you turn around and expect us to believe that the shelters are inspected? Get real.
    Why don’t we impose it on pet stores? Someone stated on the Wayside Waifs Facebook page that over 100 dogs were left sitting in runs with no one to walk them for over a week. She stated that the runs are small and that the dogs couldn’t get out to stretch. The facility is not nice.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Had an interesting conversation with a state inspector a few years ago. The inspector was going to the same shelter for the fourth time in a month, due to complaints, severe violations, and continued violations. The inspector said that if a dog breeder’s kennel was as non-compliant as this shelter was, they would be shut down in a second. Since these shelters are ‘non-profit’ and ‘untouchable’, all the inspector could do was write up violations and re-inspect. And this was all on the dog breeders’ licensing fees! Before this year, the shelters didn’t even have to pay a licensing fee. Outrageous.

      1. Miranda says:

        Perhaps we need to put on our hat cams and expose them to the television stations. I think HSUS just opened pandoras box in Missouri.

    2. ptbamdb says:

      In other words, the shelters have to be inspected, but they don’t have to comply. No consequences for them.

      1. Miranda says:

        The last shelter that I was in stunk so bad of cat urine and dog feces that we left. Then there was that big deal outside of St . Louis in the shelter where the employees were killing those dog without a vet!!!

    3. Shelley says:

      So you’re saying the Department of Agriculture is lying about its shelter inspections?

  194. Gabriel says:

    Lets apply the space requirements to all shelters and rescues. The reason Prop B doesn’t apply is because no one can live up to it and you know it.

  195. LarsonLegal says:

    Does Barbara Schmitz work for HumaneWatch?

    She is the only one that Missourians associate with lies and deceit.

    1. Shelley says:

      Anyone notice that folks from HumaneWatch have problems creating aliases?

  196. Miranda says:

    We live in Earth City. Our neighbor lady was planning on leaving her estate to HSUS. She is loaded. For years she purchased her yorkies from a licensed breeder. When she heard about Prop B she changed her estate and is now leaving it to the vet school.

      1. Maria says:

        She isn’t the only one. Our clinic has had several clients cancel their monthly donations to HSUS. They are finally waking up. Maybe we’ll see Wayne in the unemployment line along with the victims of prop B. Hope the St Louis and K.C. folk don’t mind paying for our medical bills and unemployment checks.

  197. Miranda says:

    Here is the link to the story on that shelter whose employees were illegally killing dogs.

    1. Shelley says:

      The shelter is the Jefferson County municipal shelter. Jefferson County municipal shelter — do you know what that even means?

      In other words, you’re pointing out an article about Jefferson County not having vets on hand when dogs are euthanized. Yes, they did wrong.

      And? What does this have to do with this topic, this story, or Proposition B.

      This is a _municipal_ shelter. This is a county-run shelter.

      1. Collins says:

        Being manned by volunteers who evidently don’t know proper technique and allowed a dog to stumble out of a cage in front of people.

  198. Miranda says:

    So what! All shelters and rescues should have to abide by proposition B.

    1. Collins says:

      That makes alot of sense. The government is going to impose a proposition on its citizens and not have to abide by it in its own shelters?

      1. Shelley says:

        What part of “Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention” is beyond folks comprehension here?

      2. CarterDVM says:

        The fact that you are going to ruin the lives of people who have done none of the things that you have represented in your false advertising of this proposition.
        The fact that as a result veterinary fees are going to sky rocket and more “folks” will not be able to afford veterinary care for their dogs and cats.

  199. Nickvetech says:

    Your group put all kennels into one lump group using advertising to sway voters. How do we know that all shelters don’t kill their dogs without a vet present? Let’s apply your logic and tactics to shelters and rescues that way that you did our licensed kennels. Barb Schmitz did her little hatchet job on kennels by saying that dogs were killed by their owners with out a vet. Now we have proof that it happened in a shelter and no doubt it happens in all shelters.

    1. Shelley says:

      No, you have “proof” that counties surrounding Jefferson County don’t euthanize dogs without a vet present. You did read the article, didn’t you?

      (Notice the HumaneWatch habit of attaching “vet” to any name where the subject matter is vet related? )

      1. WilliamsDVM says:

        Shelley and her friends become very nervous when the veterinary community speaks out. Look at what old Barb tried to do to our colleague in that debate. Tried to discredit him with 2 major lies. All of Missouri is still talking about that one.

  200. Groomsalot says:

    Prop B just cut my income by several thousand dollars.
    I travel to kennels to do grooming. The lies that were told in this campaign are mind boggling.

    1. Shelley says:

      Yet another creative HumaneWatch alias…

      Considering the bill hasn’t taken effect, I find your statement to be unlikely.

      1. NancyPHD says:

        Several professions will be dramatically effected. Vaccine and medical sales, groomers, feed suppliers, employees, utility companies, grain suppliers and meat suppliers, veterinarians.
        Our veterinarian stated that %60 of their clientele were kennels.
        Why even consider Shelley as we know her agenda is to end all kennels in the state.

  201. El-Mel says:

    I drive a feed delivery truck to several of the major kennels. What do you think it is going to do to our business? Not sure I will have a job.

    1. Shelley says:

      Highly unlikely that there are enough commercial dog breeders of such size that they need a “feed truck”. What do you do, get out and shovel the kibble out the back into long troughs?

      1. El-Mel says:

        We have a delivery route and do transport feed that is bagged on pallets. This statement from you is another indicator that you have no concept about our industry. These kennels purchase large quantities of feed and receive a discount for bulk purchases.

      2. ptbamdb says:

        Shelley, you continue to show your ignorance (and total stupidity on this subject). Even my small kennel uses a dogfood delivery service. Almost EVERY breeder does. They unload and stack the bags. Saves my back, plus I have to be available for unannounced inspections at the kennel during business hours every day, and it is hard ‘sneak away’ to shop for the necessities.

      3. Huff's says:

        We have a blade sharpening service and our primary clients are kennels. What do you think this is going to do to my business?

  202. Trevor says:

    The wonderful “humane” folks will lead the witch hunts against all of us but when they committ a crime against animals? Oh it was just a horrible accident and we know she will grow from the experience. Read another article to educate yourself about the activist hypocrits .

  203. NancyPHD says:

    Shelley keeps proving her ignorance to the public.
    It is obvious that she didn’t do her research prior to joining this cause.
    We should expect this from her type.
    The fact that she even posts comments tells us that she is worried about her cause. More and more people are leaving her side and realizing that the general public will next be their target.
    They will go after the livestock people next. That little “Mutts” cartoon placed in the Post Dispatch the day after the election woke up alot of people. The topic was “poor chicken.” Everyone now knows the agenda.

  204. SchmidtDVM says:

    I am surprised that the humane group cannot find anyone more intelligent to represent their cause on these posts and in the debates. They go on and on about how HSUS has nothing to do with it and only HSUS reps could come forward to debate it on live radio. When they were being defeated they came up with lies to try and discredit a veterinary professional. 190,000 signatures and not one person could come forward to speak for their cause?

  205. SchmidtDVM says:

    You must realize that the true activist is suffering from a sociopathic disorder. They cannot form a normal human bond and turn to animals to fill that void. They have total say and control over an animal where with a human they cannot assume that role. They will assert a long list of values that they feel is only attainable by them and they use it amongst themselves and have made it a social effort. It is no different than what prohibition was. They are the experts to the point that even the veterinary professionals are tossed to the side.

  206. SandersDVM says:

    Why shouldn’t we be paid the same as the human side?
    Tuition and costs are now around $130,000.00
    Prop B and the humane cause have equated dogs to humans. Dogs are members of the family and to some are their children.
    I know the public will not mind paying me the same as a pediatrician.

  207. tria says:

    I just had my dog vaccinated and a welness exam. When they handed me the bill my jaw dropped to the floor. I went home and compared it to last year. It had more than doubled.

    1. Shelley says:

      I just read that the star Betelgeuse is going to go super-nova soon. That darn Proposition B…what will it do next?

      1. Randall says:

        Sounds like a surgical procedure is being planned.

  208. Wayne says:

    These are the same folks who took away your rights to smoke and now you have to keep you kids in a car seat until they weigh 80lbs. These same enlightened people are seen driving down the freeway with dogs in their laps.

  209. Randall says:

    A husband , wife and 3 children cannot manage an 80 dog kennel yet a handful of volunteers can take care of 150 dogs in a rescue/shelter? How does this work? It doesn’t and this is being pointed out to our legislators.

  210. AndersonDVM says:

    I’ve just read through this post and have educated myself. There are several on here that truly do know the kennel industry and two or three who probably do know the industry but do not want to recognize those who do the right thing. When you take a small percentage and deem that as the norm for an entire group, I truly question your motives. This propostion could have been written to satisfy both sides. 1. Eliminate a 50 dog cap per kennel and require one person per 50 dogs (150 dogs= 3 people working in the kennel) 2. Raised kennels are fine as long as it is decking or tenderfoot and has a containment system below for waste to be taken away. 4. Temp range must go back to original setting as listed in current rules. 5. Veterinary inspection done twice yearly. 6. Access to outdoors with owner control over doors if weather is detrimental to the dog or puppies. 7. Mandatory grooming minimum twice yearly.

  211. Sarah W. says:

    Sounds like it’s time for the “breeders” to man up and get a real job that actually conributes to society instead of sitting in rural Missouri or anywhere in Missouri while everyone else cleans up your mess and teaches you the basic life skills on how to care for your animals. Honestly have you no human decency or pride? How hard is it to breed a dog? Why do breeders exist anyway when all you hear about are shelters being overcrowded issues with animal overpopulation? Why do you exist? Why? How smart do you have to be to breed a dog? Answer? No too smart. You do however have to have your wits about you to make sure you stay under the radar of investgators let me tell you being shady and being smart are not the same thing. Your all on here defending yourselves and antagonizing others opinions. Why? If your doing the right thing you have nothing to worry about and Prop B shouldn’t have any effect on your “business” which let us be honest it’s not really a business. A business entails getting up everyday and taking care of your business so it runs efficiently paying taxes bringing in new customers and keeping returning customers happy. You all don’t do that. No instead we have to enforce laws on you to make you realize your doing something wrong . We have to waste time and resources to try and keep breeders honest. You have no leg to stand on get a real job go back to school get an education or go flip burgers do anything besides waste our tax payers time efforts and money and the time of our lawmakers. I’m sure we will hear about how educated you are and what grade you made it too in school and how you have some sort of college degree but we won’t believe it. You all were sneaky snakes but now your gonna have to find a different way to slither. That is all.

  212. Marsden says:

    Sarah it is a real job but people like you have no idea what real work is all about. We live in our kennels with our dogs 24/7. According to our rule book one of us must be on our property 24/7. Do you have employment that requires that? I pay fees on my puppies that go into the state coffers to help employ those inspectors. I pay personal property taxes on all of my facilities and my breeding dogs not to mention the income tax and we also pay into social security, unemployment etc. not on just us but those that we employ. Many of us do have college degrees and we have put our children through college with our incomes. You don’t want to believe it because you are so wrapped up in your weekend super hero work and you have made it your little social cause. Let’s apply your proposition to everyone. Can you live up to your own standards? How many hypocrits are among you. It is now our turn to put on those mini cams and investigate your little rescues and shelters. We shall post it on youtube and expose you for what you truly are. Prop B will not end our businesses. It will waste the time of our legislators. It will waste our tax dollars. It will not stop dog breeding in this state.

  213. Abby says:

    I recently attended a sell out of a kennel. I was with a rescue group. We obtained very few dogs. Why? They were in terrific condition and sold for extremely high prices. I had been told that the facility was horrible and when we arrived we were all blown away by how clean and really nice that it was. I approached the wife and complimented her. I found out in our conversation that she was a retired teacher.

  214. Cole says:

    Sounds like Sarah is nervous and worried like Terry and Shelley. Their lies have caught up with them. I too will put on my cam and start checking out shelters and rescues. Wonder how they will like ending up on the news? I hope they can live up to their own standards.

  215. Andy says:

    Sarah represents the mentality that thinks it is okay to keep animals caged up in no-kill shelters. We’ve been monitoring a horrible situation in Raytown. Wonder how that will end up?

  216. Garza says:

    We’ve purchased from licensed kennels and had no problems. The owners were very helpful and allowed us to view their facility. I wish St Louis shelters were as nice as the kennel that we brought from. The shelters had a nasty smell however the kennel was odor free.

  217. IHI says:

    Missouri’s uneducated shine on through their ignorant comments. Too bad we all don’t have the luxury of sitting on the internet all day. Well I don’t because I’m a successful moral person. Who does not keep animals in a cage or brag about it either. See folks it’s my job to bring people such as yourselves and your lack of well pretty much everything to light.

  218. EvelynProf says:

    It looks to me that the theme here is everyone is guilty for the actions of a few.
    This is the same way that racists treat minority groups. Weren’t we all put into the same category? Black folks are all uneducated, lazy and don’t pay bills or contribute. Some of you posting on here should take a long look at how you are viewing others and think long and hard about what you are stating.

  219. Nicker says:

    Why are you even posting with people who condemed horses to starve to death in pastures? Moral? Enlightened? Not hardly!

  220. Gallop1 says:

    Every farmer in this state needs to be well compensated for their hay and straw that they supply to horse rescues. Very well compensated.

  221. DogChow1 says:

    You will be seeing a major price hike in dog food if B goes through.

  222. Grocerman says:

    All this horrible talk about rural folks. Wonder if these people know that their food actually does come from somewhere other than the store?

  223. MidMoKennel says:

    I was just told that our legislators are being invited to tour several Missouri kennels.

  224. Garrison says:

    The message that I’ve gotten from this whole campaign is that no one trust my ability to raise puppies for sale. They have tried and judged me and now have sentenced me. So be it. 100% of my puppies went to Kansas City and the surrounding area. I will no longer sell in that area and will send them out of state along with my excess breeding dogs. I have found a partner across state lines that will take them. What does prop b solve? Not one thing.

  225. Colleen says:

    If everyone is so unhappy with Missouri puppies, why does my phone ring off the wall from New York, Virginia, and California? Why do they keep wanting my puppies? If we do such a poor job, why are they coming all the way to Missouri for puppies? You must remember that these activists are the same folks that have gotten hold of our school systems. These are your no child left behind and the generation who took discipline out of our schools. Now look at the mess we have.

    1. ptbamdb says:

      Excellent point! I have a lot of repeat customers. They sure have been happy with my Missouri puppies. I sometimes think that the shelters, rescues, and other animal rights activists are jealous of our success and are hoping to kill off their competition with Prop B.

      1. Mike says:

        There were some very rude activists in Jefferson City today. Evidently they were not taught manners or civility in school the way that we were. It was also taught in the home.

  226. Terry Ward says:

    OMG…You’re STILL AT IT!
    Are all you in the same room?
    Do any of you work?
    Why don’t you just TEXT each other?
    Jeeze marie, if you guys are farmers there’s gonna be a some big time shortage of food.
    Or maybe that’s what you have planned for all them puppies
    you got stowed away back out the barn.
    Lord save us all..

  227. JacksonDVM says:

    I went to Jefferson City today and I was shocked to see so many rural folk. They all had one thing in common. They bathed and dressed nice. I wish that I could say the same for the activists that attended. What are they raising in the cities these days? I’ve seen better groomed kennel dogs.

  228. Kevin32 says:

    I guess Terry doesn’t know that crops don’t come out of the ground when they are snow covered. Terry doesn’t know that we are high tech out here and we can work and be tech saavy at the same time.
    Yes we also went to the meeting. Those activists need to come out to the country and let us show them bathing and grooming habits. I was down wind of some and it wasn’t good. They had these odd red stickers on them also. I saw some of the legislators rolling their eyes.

    1. Joan A says:

      They stink because hidden in their basements are real life mills. Mills not capable of producing viable puppies. Mills used to hoard and control; the booty they won. The pets they saved . Pets they saved. Only to enter a real life hell.

      Throwing it right back at you labelers..

  229. Mary Ann says:

    I believe that agriculture and the kennel industry were well represented today. They were respectful and presented our facts very well. I hope those who attended took notice of those that they have condemned. You do not have to have a college degree to have manners or to present yourself in a public place.

  230. EDWARD C says:

    So, now the radicals are burning kennels and the dogs that they think they are the protectors of. Come on over you sick radicals, my kennels are now set up for your arrival.

  231. cat says:

    There are already laws that are strict for dog breeders. There are just not enough vets or others out there enforcing the laws we already have in place. Prop B will only cost more money, put people out of jobs, and won’t stop the already illegal Puppy mills that are out there.

  232. EDWARD C says:

    You are absolutely right Cat. You need to realize that this is the agenda of the HSUS to abolish all domestic animals. They were all told not to know what the word domestic meant at the Senate hearings yesterday. They looked foolish but did as they were told.

  233. Spigsie UK says:

    Just surfed in from the UK. Jeez! If Bill Hicks was alive, he has enough material here for a life time. I don’t have the full details of Prop B available to me but anything that seeks to stop Puppy Mills gets my vote. If the legislation is weak, then get it strenghened.

    As for authorised breeders – I don’t have too much sympathy with many dog (or cat) breeders either side of the pond, as their track records in destroying breeds and creating health problems in the process has all been about egotistical posturing rather than what is good for an animal.

    Good luck to the guys on here who actually care about animals rather than themselves or presreving cruelty.

  234. EDWARD C says:

    UK guy, “anything that seeks to stop” so burning dogs up is ok with you? As long as you dont feel the pain!! You should go back to the UK and take the vegans with you. We love our dogs and plan to protect them from the domestic animal extinction that you seek.

    1. Spigsie UK says:

      Edward …damn….sorry I mean US guy ( I can play too but US seems to be more apt in your particular case). Jumping to these conclusions must be great mental stimulus for you. Well done! you will be pleased to know that I am in the UK so can’t go back but I sure appreciate the welcome. I’ll pause whilst you try to comprehend that…………………………..OK -that should have sunk in………………..The only animal extinction I seek is those humans that deliberately harm and kill our fellow domestic animals for a variety of egotistical and selfish reasons . Maybe you qualify for extinction on that basis? I don’t know but do let us know!

      1. EDWARD C says:

        So, you don’t seek animal extinction? Are you not one of the radical HSUS- PETA bunch? Do you see anyone preserving cruelty on here? The people that set fires to those kennels, what egotistical and selfish reasons would they have to do such a thing?

  235. Terry Ward says:

    When Mighty Wayne pulls up to Missouri with his big truck to take away all the animals, please let us know.
    We would love to be there to watch.

  236. Neida Pring says:

    Hi would you mind sharing which blog platform you’re using? I’m planning to start my own blog in the near future but I’m having a difficult time making a decision between BlogEngine/Wordpress/B2evolution and Drupal. The reason I ask is because your design seems different then most blogs and I’m looking for something unique. P.S Apologies for being off-topic but I had to ask!

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

More From CBS St. Louis

Download The App

Listen Live